THE CHURCHES AND THE NATION

New Zealand Listener, Volume 13, Issue 323, 31 August 1945, Page 10

THE CHURCHES AND THE NATION

An Interview by Post on The Conference in Christchurch

Zealand Churches is to take place in Christchurch from August 28th to. September 4th. That is in itself not unusual. Most of the Churches have their annual gatherings. But this Conference has unusual features, which might mean something important. For one thing,,it is a Conference, not of one Church, but of delegates of eight. That is something unique, for it is the first time that they have come together for such a purpose. And then this Conference is not meeting to consider matters concerning the internal affairs of the Churches. The 200 members of the Conference will have before them reports prepared beforehand by five commissions. One group will be considering a report on "The Presentation of the Gospel" under modern conditions. Another group will consider "Christian Order and Community" with particular reference to the South Pacific. A third will give its attention to "Christian Order in Relation to the Maori People." Another to "Christian Order in Relation to Land, Industry, and Commerce"; and the last to "Christian Order in Relation to Education." And efter each group has hammered out its findings, they will have to run the gauntA CONFERENCE of the New

let of the whole Conference in plenary session. Since this Conference is so obviously something different in the religious life of New Zealand, The Listener decided to interview the organising secretary (the Rev. H. W. Newell). _This we have done. But.as we were not able to get within 200 miles of him, we _ interviewed him by post. Here are our questions and his answers: (1) What is the relationship between the Conference and the Campaign for Christian Order? S, that they have ‘both sprung from the National Council of

Churches. When the National Council was formed in 1941, the first big job it undertook was the Campaign for Christian Order, which lasted through 1942 and 1943. It had always been hoped that the Campaign would culminate in a great national Conference of the Churches. The unsettled state of things made that impossible then. However, preparations have been going on, and here are the plans realised, though it is the National Council itself which is doing this, and not the Campaign Executive. (2) Is Church Union one of your goals? ES, Church Union is one of the goals of the whole world movement, of which the National Council here is the New Zealand expression, though we would prefer to put it like this: "To examine the differences in order to bring out the underlying unity." For, in a true sense, the"Church has always been, and can only be, one. It would not be the Church, if it were not one. However, this is not one of the immediate objects of this Conference. Our aim is rather unity in facing our task as the Church in New Zealand. Clearly we can only face that task together. And doing things together will help to draw us together. (3) In what respect is this Conference unique in the history of Christianity in New Zealand? HAVE tried to say something about that already. It is absurd to bandy about words like. "unique" in mundane things, and folk who are absorbed in the preparations for a conference are always inclined to over-estimate its significance. But perhaps I can say something more of why we in. the National Council think it is important. You see, our National Council has sprung from, and is part of, a world movement within the Church, and it has had two expressions. It has aimed at unity in faith and order within the Church itself, and world conferences were held in Lausanne in 1927 and in Oxford in 1937, which made remarkable progress along that direction. It also aims

at unity in the life and work of the Church within the community in general. And the COPEC Conference in Birmingham in 1923 and in Oxford in 1937 dealt with this. Merely to say that eight Christian communions in New Zealand are now together in the National Council is not in itself necessarily to claim much, Combinations of this kind are taking place all the time in many enterprises. What really matters is whether this Council, having been formed, is showing itself fruitful in useful directions. That is the real reason why this Conference on Christian Order in Christchurch is interesting to us. For not only are these eight bodies coming together in council-that is something-but they are meeting to think about the "life and work" of the Church here in this land to which we belong. Afd the hope is that this thinking and conferring together may lead to common action. For we can’t do much useful action unless we think and confer together first. (4) What specifically do you hope to achieve (a) at the Conference? (b) as a long-term policy? (a) So far as the Conference itself is concerned, we hope to issue a useful report on these five big questions, and other related matters, which may help to clarify the thinking on the part of the Churches. We want also to remind the Churches that their message very directly concerns the stuff of daily life, and must be set forth in terms of the concrete situation facing us all. Incidentally, we want the members of the various Churches to know each other better, and to build bridges of understanding and esteem which will be useful in all kinds of ways. We would like also to remaind our country that there are certain great principles of right within which alone our national life and policy can be healthy and strong; and we want to show how these principles work out in some of the situations which face us as a nation.

(b) Perhaps I have dealt with longterm matters in the answer already. But at the back of our thought there is always the purpose of the growth of ‘the Church in unity in questions of faith and order, and in questions of life and work, and the "comprehension" of the Church and the nation in unity. (5) If, as has been said, New Zealand has "got into the habit of thinking of Religion and the Church as something apart from the main ~ stream of our national life,’ have you good reasons for supposing that you can break this habit? Would it not at least involve mixing politics with religion, and are you not therefore inviting opposition on the part of all those who are not active believers? ES, I believe this habit can be broken, chiefly because it shows its own bankruptcy. It flies in the face of reality. From a broad point of view, religion can be defined as the dimension of depth in living. Hence, religion can never be separated from any part of life, for’ even the shallowest has some depth. The preoccupation’ of our country with material values shows signs of ending, and the solemnity of the times through which we have lived, and the huge issues that face us, all make people less content with bY

superficial living and thinking. So there are good reasons for hoping that we can expect a closer link between religion and life, and between life and religion. Whether that religion will be, or should be, the Christian Faith or something else, is a question which I take it you won’t want me to enter upon here. As for this matter of mixing politics with religion, opposition to this, I imagine, springs from a fear lest the Church should try to dominate the Government and its departments. So far as I know. no one in the National Council wants that. Indeed I believe they would oppose it as vigorously as

(continued from previous page) anyone. But politics needs this "depth" as much as any other part of our national life, just as we want statesmen who add the possession of firm principles to their other qualifications for high office. The latter part of your question seems to imply that there may be a design to form a "Christian" party which will enter the lists of political struggles and inevitably produce an anti-clerical party. I'am sure that the National Council would strenuously oppose’any such plan. Religion is concerned with the principles and pre-suppositions which are behind all the parties. (6) Does the fact that you will have delegates from Australia and U.S.A. mean that the Conference is a part of a world-wide movement for the stimulating of Christianity? If the answer is Yes, is there reason for encouragement in the result of any similar Conference overseas? YES, Bishop Moyes, of Armidale, New South Wales, and Mr. R. J. F. Boyer, Chairman of the Australian Broadcasting --SESEUEE

Commission, are to take part in our Conference. Both of them come from out of a similar movement in the Commonwealth. We had hoped that Dr. Henry Smith Leiper, U.S.A. Secretary of the World Council of Churches, would also be with us, and Dr. T. Z. Koo, from the Church in China. But transport has proved impossible. However, two leading chaplains from the U.S. Navy in the Pacific have found it possible to come. And also Dr. Surjit Singh, of the Student Christian Movement, who hails from India. So we will have persons to help to make it real to us, as you say, that our Conference is part of a worldwide movement, and that the Church is the great international society. The World Council of Churches was formed in 1938 just before the war, and still awaits ratification by the constituent Churches. But pending that next great step forward, even now 90 Churches in many nations are linked together in an organisation with similar objectives to those of our own Council. And with the coming of more normal communications, we may look for a growing community of the Church throughout the world. This is the "great new fact of our time," as Archbishop Temple called it. TY