WHAT ACCREDITING MEANS

New Zealand Listener, Volume 10, Issue 242, 11 February 1944, Page 14

WHAT ACCREDITING MEANS

Studio Interview With Director of Education

E have had numerous inquiries for the text of a discussion on School Accrediting, broadcast recently by Station 2ZB. Here is an almost verbatim report, taken from the record that was made, The speakers

were Dr.

C. E.

Beeby

Director of Education, H. C. McQueen, of the

Education Department, and Mrs, Elsie Lloyd.

R. McQUEEN: From 1944 onwards, the University Entrance Examination — which nearly everybody knows as matric.-will no longer exist in the form in which we have known it. Everybody with children at high school or about to enter high school needs to know what is now involved in preparing for university work, and so today Dr. Beeby, the Director of Education, will explain the main points of the new arrangements, Two of us, Mrs. Lloyd and I, will cross-examine him on your behalf, Dr. Beeby: The arrangement that Mrs. Lloyd and you should ask me questions is one that I like, Mr. McQueen. I suppose I’d better begin with the really new part of the business and talk first of all about accrediting, that is to say, admission to the university without having to pass an

examination set. by the university. The first point is that a pupil must be recommended by the principal of his or her school. Mr. McQueen: Does that apply to all schools? Dr. Beeby: No. Only to those on @ list approved by the university. No Compulsion on Schools Mrs. Lloyd: I suppose that means that the university or somebody connected with it will go over a list of all the schools and pick out the ones that have a good reputation? : Dr. Beeby: Well, it won’t work out exactly like that. For one thing, no school can be on the list unless its governing body has approved. Mrs. Lloyd: Oh! The board of governors, or whatever it’s called, has to decide whether it will play ball or not, Mr. McQueen: That certainly disposes of the suggestions I’ve heard and read that the university is compelling the schools to adopt accrediting. Mrs. Lloyd: What will happen if a board of governors decides not to go on the list? Dr. Beeby: Suppose I leave that over for a few minutes till I get the four main points about accrediting clear. Mr. McQueen: First point-a person to be accredited must be a pupil of a school on a list approved by the university, and he (or she) must be recommended by the principal. Dr. Beeby: Point two is that the principal must also certify that the pupil is to undertake university studies. Mr. McQueen: What these two points amount to is that it is now the principal who has the responsibility. Previously, the examiners for matriculation had it all. If they gave a youngster sufficient marks, he or she passed, and was automatically declared fit for university work, A Four-year Course Dr. Beeby: That puts it fairly neatly. There’s a good deal I could say about that side of things, too, but I'll keep to accrediting, I think. The next point is that the pupil must have completed a course of not fewer than four years at a post-primary school. Mrs. Lloyd: Four years? But many children have passed their matric, in three years in the past. Dr. Beeby: That’s true, although it was contrary to the spirit of the university statute, which said that the work for the Entrance examination was to be the result of four years’ work Mrs. Lloyd: I see. But it did mean that a boy or girl who passed in three years could stay for a fourth year and get a Higher Leaving Certificate; and that meant a bursary for university fees, didn’t it? Dr. Beeby: Yes, the Education Department awarded these Higher Leaving Certificates. But it still will give bursaries to anyone who is accredited after the four years. (continued on next page)

(continued from previous page) Mrs. Lloyd: Oh, that’s all right then. I was thinking of those people of moderate means. To have to keep their children at school for a fifth year to qualify for a bursary might be a bit difficult for them. Dr. Beeby: I quite agree, That’s why the four years will remain. Mr. McQueen: I suppose there’s a reason for the use of the word "course" in what you said a moment ago, A pupil can’t be accredited, can he, if he has merely taken a collection of odds and ends of subjects? Dr. Beeby: There’s no school that I know of that permits that. Even those-like technical high schoolsthat don’t prepare pupils for the university, still have courses of related subjects for their pupils. Still, it’s a wise provision, might try to work a point, otherwise. Now for the fourth point. The principal’s recommendation of a pupil for accrediting must also be approved by the Education Department. Mr. McQueen: Has anyone attempted any sort of estimate of the number of recommendations there’ll be? Dr. Beeby: Roughly I should say three or four thousand. There have been about five thousand candidates for university entrance each year. Mrs. Lloyd: How many of them would pass? Dr. Beeby: About half. And only about half of them would ever take any university work. Attitude of Employers Mrs. Lloyd: Of course lots of employers asked for matric. .from a boy or girl who applied for a job. And that raises another question, Dr. Beeby. What will those employers have to do in future? Will they expect candidates for positions to say they’re accredited? Dr. Beeby: I hope not. Accrediting is for entrance to the university. The evidence of having had a good postprimary education will be the School Certificate. Mr. McQueen: That, of course, gives candidates for it a much wider range of options than did the old University Entrance Examination. Dr. Beeby: It did, and it will, I expect, continue to do so in future. Mrs. Lloyd: Why do you say "expect"? Dr. Beeby: Because at the present time the School Certificate Examination is being overhauled by a special committee set up by the Minister of Education, called the Consultative Commit-

tee on the Post-primary Curriculum. It’s final report is almost ready, I believe. Mrs. Lloyd: Oh, I see. It’s quite clear you can’t tell us about things that haven’t happened yet. So I suppose we can take the School Certificate for granted in the meantime. There’s an examination for it, I suppose? Dr. Beeby: Yes, it’s a three-year course, so that a youngster who can pass’ it can produce evidence that he or she has had three years’ schooling. Actually, I expect that, in most schools, children who are to be accredited at the end of their fourth year will have passed for School Certificate at the end of their third, Mr. McQueen: That’s not compulsory, is it? Dr. Beeby: Oh, no. But it will help principals very much in making their recommendations if they know that a pupil has a School Certificate. Mrs. Lloyd: Suppose a child has passed the School Certificate Examination but is not recommended by the principal of the school? Dr. Beeby: There will still be an entrance examination for the university. But this new examination will be at Sixth Form level, and of course there are qa number of rules to be observed. (continued on next page)

ACCREDITING (continued from previous page) Mr. McQueen: How many subjects in the new examination? Dr. Beeby: Three from a list of 14 laid down by the university, and two others from the School Certificate list. Mr. McQueen: A pupil who already has a School Certificate will need to pass the university three, I take it. Dr. Beeby: That is so. He or she must present and pass the three in one year, of course. Mrs. Lloyd: It’s not going to be easy, is it? Dr. Beeby: No-and rightly so, I think. If a pupil is not accredited, then there shouldn’t be an easy back door. However, there are other safeguards as well. A pupil who proposes to satisfy the conditions for entrance to the university by examination must be at least 16 on December 31 of the year in which the Entrance Examination is taken. = : Mr. McQueen: Are there any stipulations as to subjects at all? Dr. Beeby: Only that the candidate must pass in English-either in this Entrance Examination or at the School Certificate stage. Mrs. Lloyd: Thinking back over what you said earlier, Dr. Beeby. I’ve been wondering how this will affect schools that are not on the list you-spoke of. Dr. Beeby: The list approved by the university for accrediting? Mrs. Lloyd: Yes. What happens with schools not on the list? Dr. Beeby: Their pupils will have to satisfy the conditions for the new Entrance Examination. Mr. McQueen: That is, pass in three subjects plus two of the School Certificate, including English, and they must be 16 in the December of the year they sit. New Bursary Scheme Mrs. Lloyd: Isn’t that going to be rather difficult for pupils of small schools in the country-district high schools, for example? One of my friends taught in one of those, and from what she told me I gathered that it would be pretty hard to give a boy or a girl in the Sixth Form all the help that would be needed. Dr. Beeby: I quite agree. The Minister has recognised that recently by his announcement of a new system of bursaries called "Secondary School Bursaries," These are specifically intended for pupils of schools such as you mention, Mrs. Lloyd. A pupil who has passed the School Certificate Examination will be entitled to a bursary of up to £40 a year if required to live away from home to continue studies at another postprimary school to become accredited. I haven’t included all the conditions in what I’ve just said, of course. I only wanted to meet Mrs. Lloyd’s objections, Mrs. Lloyd: It wasn’t an objection really. I’m glad I raised the point, though. The Question of Subjects Mr. McQueen: Now there are still a few things to be cleared up about accrediting. How about compulsory subjects? Dr. Beeby: There are now no restrictions on the subjects that a pupil takes if he wishes to be accredited. But you must remember that the principal of his school must certify that the pupil is fit to undertake university studies. (continued on next page)

(continued from previous page) Mr. McQueen: Which means, I take it, that the principal will keep one eye on the content of university courses when he is helping children to plan their school courses. Mrs. Lloyd: In other words, if a girl intends to go in for home science, say, at the university, she’ll include it in her school studies so that when she’s accredited she’ll have got in the groundwork while she’s been at school. Dr. Beeby: Yes. Of course she ought to take home science anyway, being a girl. Mr. McQueen: Similarly a boy proposing to study home science or medicine or dentistry or engineering at the university will take science at high school. Now a further point. What is to stop a school recommending a pupil who has taken what I'd call a fancy course with a lot of unusual subjects that are not as a rule included in university work? Dr. Beeby: There is a double safeguard against that. First the Director of Education won’t necessarily accept all those pupils who are recommended. Second, if a pupil is recommended for accrediting and not approved, he or she will have to sit for the new examination. Now there are 14 subjects from which three must be chosen, but if a pupil has studied subjects outside that list it may be difficult for him to bring himself up to the examination standard. Mr. McQueen: All in all, then, those who are really preparing for university work are going to do very much the same work as they have done in the past at secondary schools. Dr. Beeby: That’s what it amounts to. The difference will be with the many children who never intended to take — university work. In the past they’ve all had to follow pretty much the same course-the Entrance course-but now with the wider scope offered by the School Certificate they’ll no longer have to study a foreign language, for instance, Only those who have some aptitude or taste for a language will study it. Mr. McQueen: We’ve made it appear that a good deal will now rest on the principals of schools, haven’t we? Dr. Beeby: In each of the university colleges a special liaison officer is stationed to do a number of things in connection with accrediting. ~ Mrs. Lloyd: Is there going to be any bother over the transition stage? What, for example, is going to happen in 1944? Dr. Beeby: Provision has been made to meet the special needs of those who will sit in 1944. Mr. McQueen: But I’m afraid that would take too long to explain. Besides, it might confuse some of our listeners. What I mean is that we’d be discussing special cases, and they’re often misleading. Mrs. Lloyd: As long as they’re taken care of it’s all right. Anyway, parents of those children can get accurate information from their principals, can’t they? Dr. Beeby: That’s the best way. If there is any doubt about that, they could write to the University of New Zealand-or to the Education Department. Mr. McQueen: That’s a fair offer. And thank you for your explanation of accrediting. Dr. Beeby: I am very glad of the opportunity. The ideal of any educator is parents who understand what it’s all about.