L—3a.

42

W. PERRY.

(b) That the company or its assignee or assignees be granted leave to deviate the route of the said railway-line between, say, the 5-mile point (Kakahi end) and the 20-mile point, so that the line will pass to the latter point over the saddle lying between the Maungaku and Maungakatote peaks, instead of proceeding thence by the present surveyed route. (c) That the times laid down for the construction of the said railway-line (with its standard modified and its route deviated as aforesaid) be extended respectively as follows : — (1) To the 31st December, 1932, for the construction of the first twenty miles (Kakahi end) thereof: (2) To the 31st December, 1945, for the construction of the remaining portion of the lines. (d) That the term of the aforesaid company's rights be extended by five years—that is to say, to the 28th February, 1966. (e) That the Hon. Minister be empowered to effect such alterations or amendments in the provisions of the aforesaid title-deeds, as may be rendered necessary or equitable by aforesaid deviation, or, by reason of any change or changes in general conditions that have occurred since the title-deeds were executed. 3. The undersigned, agree to the granting of all the aforesaid requests, and respectfully authorize and urge the Hon. Minister to give effect to them accordingly. Such effect, however, shall only be given on the express condition that the scale of royalty laid down in the aforesaid title-deeds and payable to the owners shall be increased in manner following :— (a) For the period ending the 29th February, 1936 —no increase : (b) For the period ending the 28th February, 1946—from £11 ss. to £12 10s. per acre : (c) For the period ending the 29th February, 1956—from £13 2s. 6d. to £15 per acre : (d) For the period ending the 28th February, 1966 —from £15 to £20. 4. The undersigned farther authorize and urge the Hon. Minister to grant the afore-mentioned company or its assignee or assignees complete immunity from all proceedings for the determination of its rights under the aforementioned title-deeds until the 12th day of December, 1928 ; and, further, if at any time or before that date it shall appear to the Hon. Minister that the said company or its assignee or assignees have made such financial arrangements as will enable it or them to pay the owners all arrears of royalty owing to them and to construct the afore-mentioned first twenty miles of railway-line, the Hon. Minister may, in his own absolute discretion, extend the period of the aforementioned immunity to such date or dates as he shall think fit. Dated the 7th September, 1928, and signed by Hoani te Heuheu and 149 others. Then a committee, consisting of Messrs. R. W. Smith, M.P., Ilampson, Grace, and Findlay, met and passed the resolutions set out on pages 17 and 18, and on page 18 we have a record of the resolutions jjassed by the Native owners on the 21st February, 1929 ; and, as we have already been informed, those resolutions were passed practically unanimously at a meeting of, approximately, four hundred Natives, held for the purpose of considering these proposals. The meeting was presided over by the present Native Minister, Sir Apirana Ngata. Hon. Sir Apirana Ngata : I was not Minister then. Mr. Perry: From the way I put it it might have been inferred that the Minister was then Minister of Native Affairs, and I thought that was the case. The resolutions were all passed by the Natives with, I think, two dissentients ; and can any member of this Committee blame the Duncan syndicate for assuming out of the correspondence previously passing between Mr. Duncan and the then Native Minister (Mr. Coates), and after the meeting of Native owners on the 21st February, 1929, presided over by the present Minister of Native Affairs—can Mr. Duncan be blamed for believing that no further difficulties would be set in his way, and there would be no difficulty in obtaining the consent of the Government ? Mr. Langstone: The Government had been changed in the meantime. Mr. Perry : No ; the point I am making deals with the period before the change of Government took place in 1928. There was the correspondence between Mr. Coates and Mr. Duncan, which led the Duncan syndicate to believe the consent of the Government would be granted. But after the general election a change of Government took place, and negotiations had to be begun over again, and then the new Government came in and the new Native Minister presided over this meeting at which the Natives passed all the resolutions. I was not a member of the Duncan syndicate, and never heard of it until, I think, a week ago, but if I had been a member I should have been very much inclined, if I may be permitted to use the expression, to lay substantial odds that the consent of the Government would have been given. Notwithstanding the fact that the Duncan syndicate had broken the back of all the obstacles as far as the subscription of capital was concerned, the consent of the Government was not granted to the project, and my friend Mr. Findlay just informs me that no reasons were submitted by the Government for declining the consent. The Government, instead of consenting to the project, placed the whole matter before the Native Affairs Committee, which reported on it as per parliamentary paper 1.-3 a, 1929, and recommended that the Government take steps to acquire the property. Ido not propose to read the recommendations which are contained in the report. Following the recommendation as to the Government taking steps to acquire the property, in 1929 the Act was passed, and by section 29 all claimants, or persons having claims arising out of these agreements, are invited by Parliament to come along and place their claims before the Committee : and here we are. As far as the Tongariro Timber Co. is concerned, as Dr. Chappie says, there seems to be the impression somewhere —I do not suggest it is in the minds of the Committee —that the Tongariro Company was originally formed for the purpose of exploiting the Native owners. But the complete answer to that is, that the preliminary arrangements began in 1906 between the Tongariro Company and the Native owners, and in 1908 the Government of the day set up a Commission consisting of Sir Robert Stout and the Hon. Sir Apirana Ngata —it was known as the Stout-Ngata Commission—for the purpose of investigating the matter. Members of the Committee will agree that the personnel of that Commission was absolutely unimpeachable. That Commission reported to the Government that the proposed agreements between the Tongariro Company and the Natives were for the benefit of the Natives, and in the public interest. jkfr. Endean ; Has timber gone up since then ?