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A. SHIRTCLIFF.

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You do not know what that runs into ?—That is what I have to supply. You might give also the cost the farmer has to pay out in wages over and above the threshing men —the man who attends the binder, the man who attends to the horses, the men who are stooking and stacking ? —That is all included in the cost of growing, and you have that per bushel now. Mr. Jones.] You heard the evidence of Mr. Mulholland and Mr. Alexander this morning ?-— I did not hear Mr. Alexander, but I did hear Mr. Mulholland. They were very emphatic that the large farmer can get on without wheat-growing, but they were equally clear that the small farmer could not carry on without it. Do you agree with that ? —That is entirely my view. You no doubt handle a large number of accounts of wheat-growers in your business. Would you say from an examination of those accounts that the wheat-farmer is getting too much for his wheat at present ? —No, sir, I would not. That schedule of balance-sheets and accounts I have given you I think will show that they are simply a little more than paying their way. We had it in evidence here from one of the pig men that a line of some kind of feed-grain was offered, in Australia for £2 10s. a ton, but because of the duties it could not be brought over here. What sort of stock would it be at that price ?—Very poor. Would it be worth buying there ? —I doubt it. The question of bran and pollard has been raised. Do you think the man in the North Island would be better or worse off, if wheat-growing went out in New Zealand, than he is to-day with the £1 per ton duty ? T think he would be worse off if wheat-growing went out, because there would be times when he could not get bran or pollard at all, or have to pay an exorbitant price for it; and if we did not grow wheat here, and Australia had a surplus, she would still make us pay. Mr. McCombs.] Does she not make us pay now ?—No, because England is the check on the world's market. What about Canada ? —lt is only a short distance from England to Canada, and England is still the head of the markets of the world. Everybody is selling to her, and they could not " put it across " England, because she has the call on the markets of the world. Mr. Jones.] In connection with the poultry question in the North Island, let us assume that no wheat was grown in New Zealand, and the North Island poultry man had to purchase his wheat from merchants who imported it into New Zealand : do you think that on the average he would buy his wheat where he says lie is buying it to-day ?—No, no ; market for market. I think that if the farmer in the North Island will recognize that it is a very valuable assistance to his business to buy through the wheat pool in the South Island, and if they would organize at both ends, each working in with the other, he will not pay too much for his requirements. Mr. Macpherson.] You said just now that it would be easier for the large farmer to go out of wheat-growing than the small farmer ?—Yes. And, personally, I would be very sorry to see any wheatgrower, large or small, going out of the industry, because I know from my experience in managing the Farmers' Co-operative concern the value of wheat-growing to those around, and that without it a lot of them could not carry on. I say that distinctly and sincerely. Mr. Bitohener.] Do you know of a specific case of the smaller growers —the men who are running their farms by themselves and their families —where, if wheat-growing was taken away from them, it would practically put the young people off the farm ?—I know plenty of instances. I have just run through my mind, and can recall twenty-five cases where, if these small farmers were pushed out of growing wheat, they could not carry on. Mr. Macpherson.] And the members of the family would be driven into unemployment ? —Your difficulties in that respect would be intensified. Mr. Bitchener.] The question has been threshed out over and over again about farmers going in for other lines of farming, as it were, to make it up. Do you think that those small farmers who grow this wheat—l think Mr. Mulholland told us this morning that a large proportion of them were men who grow 30 acres —would grow anything else on their small farms, and live on that without growing wheat ? —No, I do not think that they would ; in fact, T know they would not. Rev. Mr. Carr.] Could you give us the actual amount in money that would be lost if anything serious happened to the wheat industry in New Zealand ? Mr. Wright.] I will get that evidence from the next witness. Mr. Wilkinson.] I think you raised the question of the cost of carriage from your port to Auckland being excessive ? —No, not excessive. I spoke of the cost, which I considered excessive, as between what the farmers pay in South Canterbury and what the farmers in the North Island pay. I have a copy of a freight-note for one sack of wheatmeal, and it shows the freight on the one bag of meal to be 7s. 7d. between the South and the North, and that is perhaps one of the reasons why the charge to the farmer is so high—because of the tremendous charge for freight. What is your opinion ? —Well, sir, it is wrong : there should not be a freight of 7s. 7d. on a bag of wheat. I think that is the freight through a carrying company. It is the freight from one railway-station in the South Island to one railway-station in the North. —Then, it is a very dear way of getting it through to there. They could get it up in boats for about 2s. a bushel to Auckland, and then you would have more transport by road to where it is going. In Otago farmers can combine and get the minimum rate for 14- tons. It was suggested by a witness that wheat could be bought through the Wheat-growers' Association in the South Island at ss. lid., and that there is a very high margin of cost after that before it reaches the poultry-farmer and after it is delivered at the station ? —The question is how far he is from the station. It may be to anywhere in the North Island ? —lt should not cost, for anywhere in the North Island, for transport more than Is. 4d. a bushel ; and I would say that that is much too high a price.

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