A. H. COCKAYNE.]

1.—17.

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In regard to the permanency of rye pasture in Canterbury, would farmers, if they tried it, prefer Hawke's Bay and Gisborne rye to their own ? —We are right on to that point now, although one would prefer not to use the terms " Hawke's Bay" and " Gisborne," but " permanent" and " temporary " rye. Is it not a fact that a great deal of the rye that comes from Canterbury now is not perennial rye, but is more or less of the Italian type ?—Yes, frequently you will buy types of perennial rye from Canterbury, and it is very largely Italian rye. I would be inclined to think that we could lengthen the profitable life of Canterbury rye pastures by at least a year by the use of truly permanent rye, but I do not think we will be able, owing to climatic conditions, to ever get the rye pastures of Canterbury in the position of, for instance, the rye-grass pastures of the Hastings Plain, which are truly permanent. Would it not be possible to see that rye-grass seed is sold as guaranteed ? —This year we instituted rye certification on exactly the same lines as wheat certification. One of the difficulties, however, is that a very large amount of work is involved both in testing out the material and in personal field inspection ; but we intend this year to certify to truly permanent rye which has passed certain growth and examination tests. It is good for us to know that. Do the farmers of Canterbury know about the more permanent ryes of the North Island ? —Oh, yes. One of the troubles is that you buy rye-grass which is nominally perennial rye, but is really not perennial rye at all. What lam trying to get at is that if the farmers of Canterbury were certain of getting perennial rye it might lengthen the period of the pastures ?—Yes, but I do not think it would lengthen it to any great degree of permanence ; but it would increase the production of it for at least a year, and, of course, that would be an enormo'us gain. It does not seem much of a gain to those of us who are used to permanent pastures. —Where a pasture is one year good, second year medium, and third year useless, if you could render that good for three years, and it went off in the fourth year, that, of course, would reduce the cost of wheatgrowing more than anything else. In regard to the certification of perennial rye, are you doing that in connection with North Island rye ? —Yes. It so happens that the only ryes to which we can confidently certify are located in the North Island. The seed from the 1929 crop is grown at Palmerston North in duplicate plots, and is thoroughly investigated to see whether it is of the permanent type or is not of the permanent type before it is passed. Then one of our officers goes to Hawke's Bay and actually earmarks the product concerned. When the farmer is going to harvest that crop he has to inform the Agricultural Department, and an officer goes along and seals the sacks as the crop is being harvested off the machine. Of course, the sealing of the bags could only be done on the fields ? —The only question of organization that arises at the present time is whether we will, as we have done with wheat certification, limit the cleaning to certain places, or set up some quite good safeguards to enable cleaning to be done at other places without loss of identification of seed. Mr. Macpherson.\ Have you compared English perennial rye with Hawke's Bay rye ? —The majority of English rye-grass on the English market at the present time is as temporary in duration as the Canterbury rye. The only truly permanent rye from Europe that we have is a special rye produced at the Welsh plant-breeding station. It coincides with our leafy permanent New Zealand type. Mr. McCombs.] Are you doing the same thing regarding certification with cocksfoot; and, if not, why not ? —The cocksfoot is in rather a different position. The majority of New-Zealand-harvested cocksfoot is good, and is superior to any that can be imported ; and the Department of Agriculture already recognizes that by putting a distinct bar against imported cocksfoot by insisting that it be stained. The Chairman.] That is actually done because of the imported cocksfoot being inferior to New Zealand cocksfoot ?—Yes ; the staining is insisted upon so that when the farmers in New Zealand want to buy New Zealand cocksfoot they will be sure of getting it. Mr. McCombs.] Could the Department grant certification in connection with cocksfoot the same as is being done in regard to rye ? —The necessity is not so great. If the cocksfoot which is produced in New Zealand were better in some districts than in others we would be inclined to consider the institution of certification. If we can see that any real good will be done by certification we do that; but in the case of rye certification is absolutely essential on order to protect the farmer. If a farmer wants perennial rye he should not have Italian rye given him. If he wants Italian rye he can buy it, and we are going to certify to perennial rye because it is possible to do so. All we could do with regard to cocksfoot would be to certify that it was New Zealand cocksfoot. You could certify that it came from the plains where it had been harvested, and had been put in as an ordinary crop like oats ? —Plains cocksfoot is excellent if it is grown from New Zealand seed. Mr. Macpherson.\ You are hardly likely to develop perennial cocksfoot on the plains, because itis developed on the hills and brought to the plains ?—No ; the plains cocksfoot-seed itself, generally speaking, is indistinguishable from Akaroa cocksfoot. To put it another way, the average New Zealand cocksfoot is good, and is superior to imported cocksfoot. The Chairman.'] In regard to the certification of rye, do you propose to certify that it is truly perennial rye, or give an indication of the length of time the pasture was down from which the seed was harvested ? —Probably it would be better if I supplied the Committee with the departmental instructions and suggestions with regard to the certification of rye. This would give the Committee the information they require on the subject. We are going to certify to mother seed of Hawke's Bay, and no mother seed will be certified to unless the pastures are not less than six years old. However, people growing rye will be able to get a certification that it has been grown from pastures not less than six years old. The Chairman.] On behalf of the Committee I have to thank you, Mr. Cockayne, for the valuable evidence you have given this morning.

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