I—ls

52

[j. A. FLESHER.

" (2) Section ten of the Motor-spirits Taxation Act, 1927, is hereby amended by adding the following subsection :— " ' (3) All moneys paid to the promoter of a tramway pursuant to this Act shall be paid into such promoter's General Account, and shall be available only towards defraying the cost of the construction, reconstruction, maintenance, or repair of so much of any main highway within the Main Highways Act, 1922, or of any street or streets forming a continuation of a main highway, as the promoter is required to maintain and repair by the Tramways Act, 1908, or any amendment thereof, or any Order in Council made thereunder, or towards the payment of interest or of interest and sinking fund payable in respect of moneys borrowed for the construction or reconstruction of such portion of any main highway or street or streets forming a continuation of a main highway as aforesaid.' " We submit we arc entitled to a share of the Highways Fund, as the tramway road is really part of a main highway —it is convenient to a main highway—and if the tramway authority constructs and maintains that to a specified extent surely it is entitled to some consideration and to a share of the petrol-tax. Mr. Murdoch.] You want a portion of the highways subsidy and of the petrol-tax. How do your fares compare with the other fares in New Zealand ?—Taking them all round, 1 think ours are the lowest in New Zealand. Yet you show a profit ?—We have got to the stage when we shall no longer show a profit. But you are not making a loss ?—We have not up to the present. That is, after allowing for all charges, upkeep of track, and everything else ? —Yes. I think you said that under this special Act of yours you could make your own provision for fares, time-tables, and so on ? —For supplementary services. Then you are pretty well catered for there ?—We are quite satisfied with that provision. Hoes that not give you all you need now for the upkeep of your track ?—ln what way ? If you wished to raise more money for the maintenance of the track you should increase your fares ?—That is what we cannot do. You have power, you know, to impose any charge you like in your own way ? —That is all right ; but there is a limit, on the other hand, that the public will pay, and beyond which you cannot go. Is "that specified I—l1 —I mean that the economic situation compels us to take the present course. We have to face the competition of between forty thousand and fifty thousand cycles that pass over our trams in all directions, and if our tram system were confined to a radius of three miles from Cathedral Square we could run Id. fares all right and give a much better service ; but, as it is, where you have a place like Sumner, Riccarton, and New Brighton, and all round that country beyond the three-mile limit, that is our trouble. You run that service at the present time, and you are not making a loss ?—No, because in our earlier days we had a depreciation and renewal fund. We charged 2 per cent each fund for that, and our sinking fund was only £ per cent. A Commission of Inquiry went into the matter, and readjusted those rates, and we have reached the limit now in the case of renewals, and the requirement in that respect is very much greater than what we have set aside, and we have to raise special loans in order to supplement the depreciation fund. What has helped us has been the electrical power from Lake Coleridge. You do not expect there will be any increase in your electricity charges, do you ? —I do not know. When the Waitaki scheme comes in I think the price of electricity will have to be reconsidered. You want a portion of the subsidy from the Highways Fund, but you have made a statement that you have the power to impose all charges you like ? —They would have to be increased. If you were running at a loss, you have the provision to increase the fares, have you not ?—That is so ; but here is our trouble : the private motor-owner is so generous that he will bring in three of his friends in his car to his office. Mr. Healy.] You have increased your fares?—We have increased the cash Id. section to 2d. We increased recently the 2d. people to 3d., and the 3d. people to 4d., and the people on beyond the third section we put up Id., which brings them into line. In addition, we have a system of concession tickets which brings down the cost to the regular user. Mr. Murdoch.] If you had not sufficient money, and it was necessary to increase it, you have the power to extract as much money as would pay for the upkeep, so that you have practically a monopoly now ? —That is quite true ; but you can go too far with your fares—you can push them up too high, which means ruining your business. You suggest a subsidy : on what would you base it ? —On the proportion of the roadway we construct or maintain that is worn out by motor-cars. You said there should be one law to control the whole of the State : would that not put you out of action % —lf you make the Auckland Transport Board Act the standard for the Dominion we should be quite satisfied. You think it established better conditions than any other special Act in force at present ? —lt embodies a great many of our conditions, and is practically drawn up on our lines. You suggested that any new control body that was set up would not be a competent one because it would lack experience ; but the Board that was set up in the first case, was it not one of inexperienced men —I speak of the Transport Board ?—There has been no Transport Board. I think you suggested that under this Bill the men who would be elected would be inexperienced, and not capable of giving the service the previous men gave. Is that not so ?—I referred particularly to the subject of trackless trams —the framing of regulations to govern that particular matter, seeing that trackless trams are being established, and I considered that they should not be brought into line with motor-omnibuses.