H.—3o,

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Mr. Jones: Of course, that is a possibility, but it has never occurred. In this discussion it is just as well to remember that your boat would have been out long ago. This Board enabled your boat to live as long as it has lived. Mr. Witters : You reckon she would have been out long ago ? Mr. Jones : She could have come here and got your own meat from your own works . . . Mr. Lysnar says that no reply was sent to him in connection with this matter. Here is a reply dated the. 26th June, 1923. Mr. Lysnwr: . . . On the 25th June I wrote you. It was to that letter. It was the first letter I said you did not acknowledge. It was only through the interview that we knew you were dissatisfied. You never intimated it in writing. We considered that it was decided because of the congestion at Home and the market had fallen and people were withholding their meat. We said we would meet the position by offering to pay the storage for two months at the other end. Nearly all the North Island works . . . and they all told us the same thing. Both went to a considerable amount of trouble to assure us it was nothing to do with the boat; it was purely the circumstances of the market. Mr. Witters : This letter of yours, Mr. Jones. You want to strike out that last clause and the word " insolvent," it being understood if we do sell the boat while she is on the trip the Board would give the necessary consent to facilitate her returning Home. She is to see that trip out. Mr. Jones : I can give you my assurance that that would be so. Mr. Lysnar: Mr. Jones will include the word " insolvent." Mr. Jones : It is subject to that, of course. In any deal of that kind you can go to my bank and they will assure you of my position. I would say, "My bankers are So-and-so ; they will give you that information." Mr. Witters: Perhaps it is nothing more, but at the same time Ido not think it is necessary to bring it so glaringly under their notice, because it creates suspicion. Mr. Jones : Supposing you came to me to make a deal. You would want to know my financial standing. I would say, " You go to the Bank of New Zealand and they will tell you." Mr. Lysnar: The boat would not be ours if we were insolvent. The fact that we are running the boat shows that we are not insolvent. Mr. Witters : In a case where you have nothing to lose, but in this case it is different. We know that all contracts are governed by that. You have to protect the shipper. If anything happens in the meantime, would the shippers have their redress from you ? Mr. Jones : Ido not know. But it is our business to see that as far as the shipper is concerned he is safeguarded. Mr. Lysnar: Do you suggest that a ship gets hold of meat Mr. Witters : Mr. Jones means the mortgagee. If you could be satisfied that the mortgagee would not seize the boat with her load, then there would be no occasion for this. Mr. Jones : I think, as agents for the meat, that we ought to know the financial standing of the people who are carrying the meat, Mr. Witters. Mr. Lysnar : That is a legal question : could the mortgagees foreclose and take the meat together with the ship. Mr. Jones : Your agents at Home know the financial position of the company. If I saw your bank and that was put in front of me I would not look at that word " solvent," I would look at your account, and naturally they know the history ; and the other clause is simply a safeguard as far as the Board is concerned, just in the same way that the special >" Codrington " clause is in the agreement. Mr. Lysnar: Well, then, if the Board cannot guarantee that freezing companies will ship their meat by her, she is singled out, as it were, for an accepted refusal. Mr. Jones : We are only dealing with her. Mr. Witters : No ; the Board cannot guarantee freezing companies will ship by any ship. Mr. Fraser: We could hardly do that. Mr. Jones : Why was the clause in the main agreement not objected to, Mr. Witters ? That clause simply makes plain in a few words what is set out there. Mr. Witters : It goes to interpret in a few words what is set out there, but it does not make it palatable, you know. It makes it all the more unpalatable. Mr. Jones : Put down your interpretations of the clause, Mr. Witters. Mr. Witters : I would cut it out. You have no reason to fear anything of the kind. (Mr. Hunt here joined the meeting, and Mr. Jones explained the position to him.) Further discussion took place on the question of the company being insolvent, which Mr. Lysnar again denied. Mr. Hunt: It is common knowledge that your concern is not carrying on as it was before. Mr. Lysnar: There is no receiver in for the ship. Mr. Hunt: Is it not common knowledge that the bank would sell the ship if they could ? Mr. Lysnar : I am not aware of it. Mr. Witters : Which bank ? Mr. Hunt: The Bank of Scotland. It is common knowledge that the bank would sell for the amount of the mortgage, but there is a very grave doubt that she would bring £60,000. Mr. Lysnar: If we could not get a load here they would take proceedings to sell. Mr. Hunt: I understand that it is commonly reported that one of the reasons why they would sell is that they cannot get their money. Mr. Lysnar: They can get their money because they are guaranteed by some of the best financial people in England, men who can sign a cheque for the amount at any moment. So there is no justification for that talk at all. The Bank of Scotland are not concerned. But they are concerned