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And at page 607 the following appears Did you as a bank have serious doubts at that time as to the financial stability of the guarantors, or any of them ?—Yes. And was it for that reason that you were wanting to make your losses as small as you could ?—Certainly. You mean losses on tho company's advances ? Yes ? —Yes, because, after all, it was quite possible that we would also make losses on some of the guarantors' accounts. Were any of those guarantors in your opinion at that time good for a considerable part of the account ? —No. Of course it is self-evident that if you had collateral security you need not have been so anxious as you apparently were to get rid of these works I—One1 —One of the reputedly strongest directors on the Board, Mr. Chairman, has not yet paid his calls that were made in 1923, and cannot pay them. I hate doing this sort of thing—talking about men who are not customers of my bank —but I cannot help it. He is a man of reputedly great wealth, but his bank will not find £3,000 to pay his calls. I do not want to ask any names at all. The Commission wants to avoid giving any persons or bodies any unnecessary pain ? —Well, Mr. Lysnar knows the circumstances oi that case quite as well as I do. Mr. Jolly, at page 723, answered : — . . . the financial position of a lot of those guarantors was not very good : is that so ? —That is so. Did you consider what would probably be the best and wisest course —whether you should make a loss on the works or press the guarantors ?—I knew it was useless to press the guarantors, and I preferred to face the loss on the works. Were you afraid that pressing the guarantors might bring about serious financial trouble, and that that trouble would spread from the Poverty Bay district throughout the rest of your accounts ?—And the district generally. I considered that it certainly would. And Mr. Mountfort, a witness called by Mr. Lysnar, at page 912, when asked about the guarantors, said — Supposing they had been sued and any of them had been forced into bankruptcy, that would have been a very serious thing for the district, would it not 1 It might have commenced a train of failures ? —lt might. One of the directors, as reported at page 1055, admitted " that the financial position in 1923 was not as rosy as it is to-day," and that he had not then found it easy to meet his calls. He says, at the bottom of the page, " I have not paid mine yet —not all of them." At page 1056 the following appears : — I think, Mr. Witters, that it was because some of the directors, and I think many of the shareholders, were unable to meet their calls that you people thought of a way out of the difficulty by selling the works I—That1 —That was my reason. At page 1077, Mr. Coop, another of Mr. Lysnar's directors, was asked — You say that Mr. Jolly, when you saw him on the lltli and 12th September, said that lie would not give a snap of his fingers for shares in the Poverty Bay Farmers' Meat Company ?—Yes. Well, now, at that time it is the fact, is it not, that the Poverty Bay Farmers' Meat Company could not collect the calls on the then existing shares ? —Our company, do you mean ? It was very hard to collect. So that I suppose you will admit that Mr. Jolly was quite justified in saying that he would not give a snap of his fingers at that time for the additional shares which you proposed to issue ? —Pretty right too, although they would have been all right to-day. So that you do not complain of the bank not having accepted the proposal for the increased capital in lieu of the guarantee ?—The bank was looking out for its own position. The bank was taking a perfectly fair stand in its own interests ?—Yes, he was fair to the bank. Now, I put it to you, Mr. Coop, that it must have been pretty plain to you in September that if the bank decided to sell the works you were not likely to get more than £225,000 ? — If you were going to have a forced sale you might not get more than that. You knew on the 11th and 12th September that Mr. Jolly was going ahead with the sale of the works ? —Yes. And that if you did not agree to the sale he was going to sell under the Registrar or somehow ?—Yes. That being so, I put it to you that it must have been obvious to you that you could not get more than £225,000 ? —We knew there would be only one bidder. And I put it to you, therefore, that if you had lost that bidder there was a strong probability that the loss to the guarantors might be very much increased I—lt1 —It could have been increased by £40,000,