A.—6a,

52

Settlers with Capital needed for Rhodesia. Mr. Ormsby-Gore : I was not going to touch Malta or British Guiana. I should like to say a word about Rhodesia. It is largely for publication. What Mr. Burton has just said, of course, applies equally to Rhodesia, but as the new Rhodesian Government is not represented here, except indirectly through me, I would like to point out that, under the settlement with the British South Africa Company, the new Rhodesian Government this week comes into full possession of 50,000,000 acres of unalienated land in Southern Rhodesia over and above the Native reserves. One of its first objects will be to people those 50,000,000 acres with settlers, if it can get them. The European population of Southern Rhodesia is only about thirty-four thousand now, while the Native population is between eight hundred thousand and nine hundred thousand. lam quite sure, from all I have learned, that they are very anxious to increase the number of settlers with capital who can go out there and help to develop that hinterland of Africa. I will say nothing further than that this afternoon. The Chairman: I think it would be interesting to the Conference to hear the Minister of Labouron this subject. Great Britain's Attitude. Sir Montague, Barlow : I do not propose, at any rate at this stage, to say more than one or two words. I think we all realize the difficulties of moving a large mass of men and women and children overseas. Of that there is no doubt, and I cordially welcome the speech of the Minister from South Africa in which he said that there was a great deal to be said for the group proposal, because we, ought to be able to do something better nowadays than —to use, I think, his own words—" individual firing " ; we ought to bo able to organize things on some basis that represents the nation as a whole. For the last hundred years we have let the individual go out and more or less skirmish for himself. Well, now, cannot something better than that be done to-day ? I think 1 am fairly conversant with the difficulties, at any rate, of two of the great Dominions, South Africa and Canada, both of which I know pretty well. First may I say we realize your difficulties there, difficulties of labour, difficulties of handling men when they have arrived, difficulties of the grumblers, difficulties of the man who is not suited for land-settlement, and so on. Secondly, with regard to our difficulties here, I would venture to suggest two things. I welcome entirely what Colonel Buckley said, that we will deal with our own immediate unemployment difficulties ourselves. We do not propose sending you our unemployables and getting rid of our own burdens. We will carry them, and carry them, I hope, successfully. That is not our attitude at all; but we are overpopulated. As a result of the cessation of emigration for some six or seven years, the normal (low has been held up and we arc like a pond that is overstocked. Need of Training for Rural Life. Under those circumstances, what is the best method of effecting a large system of migration overseas ? Take a large class of people for whom I have a special responsibility—l mean some two hundred thousand or three hundred thousand ex-service men, who, had the war not, come, would by this time have been trained and fitted into some skilled or semi-skilled occupation. They have not been trained, they are first-class material, they are in no proper sense of the word unemployable, but they have not had their chance. There is splendid material. T have just returned from a tour in Ulster, where I saw a large number of these ex-service men, disabled men, being trained for a rural life, trained in small handicrafts of all kinds, and I welcome Colonel Buckley's suggestion of training as a possibility, which you will no doubt explore, because a great many of our men, even though they are good material for country settlement, have not had much training in country life. Possibilities of Group Settlement. Perhaps I may be allowed to say one word about the group system, which I have always looked upon as being a very effective means of developing more scientific methods of migration. 1 was a little surprised to hear Mr. Massey's comment, because, if my recollection is right, Christchurch itself was settled very much on the system of what we are venturing to suggest under .the term " group settlement." I think that to promote with success a great policy of this kind you must have, in addition to the governmental provision, finance measures, and so on, a large amount of real enthusiastic voluntary support. Ido not believe that you can move large masses of men merely by the stroke of a Ministerial pen. It cannot be done. If you.can bring into co-operation with the Government —somewhat on the lines on which we raised what we called the " Pals' Battalion " during the war —if you could bring in the enthusiasm and the co-operation of the great municipalities ; if you could get our great towns—with the co-operation, of course, of the authorities in the Dominions— to take up tracts of land ; if you could get Manchester to take up an area in Canada with the approval of the Canadian authorities to become a Manchester village settlement across the seas, and be responsible for shepherding their own people when they have got there ; I believe you could do a great deal to put more spirit and more enthusiasm into the policy with regard to which the Government have laid down the broad lines. Those are the only few words which I desire to say at present, but perhaps there will be an opportunity when wo get into more detailed discussion to develop these points at greater length. The discussion was resumed at the Fourth Meeting, held on the 9th October, as follows : — Mr. Warren : I will not detain the Conference very long. So far as Newfoundland is concerned, we regret very much that we are not able at present to avail ourselves of the Act. So that there may bo no misconception of our attitude on this matter, I would like to explain why it is. Newfoundland