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19. Is that the want of shipping regulation ? —Shipping regulation and, of course, cool storage. 20. So that you are straight-out for compulsory pooling ? —Undoubtedly. I have had too much experience of the voluntary principle. There is not sufficient loyalty among the factories for them to stand together without compulsion. 21. So for the successful marketing of the dairy-produce you must have compulsion ? —I believe so. The Bill is not worth the paper it is written on unless you have the compulsory clauses. 22. I was rather surprised at the suggestion you made that it would be necessary to set aside money for cool stores in London ? —I did not say " set aside " money for that purpose. There are plenty of cool stores there. 23. Seeing that we have ample cool storage here, do you not think that by successful regulation of the shipping there would be no need for going to the expense of providing big cool stores in London ? —No ; I suggested a little cool storage. If we can get regular deliveries on to the market at the other end we do not require any cool stores —we want regular deliveries. 24. Regular shipping would obviate the necessity for going in for cool stores ? —We have fast boats and slow boats, and even if we have regular despatches we might not have regular deliveries. 25. Mr. Hawken] You understand that a very considerable reduction was made in the freight on meat, but that only a very small concession was obtained in the freight on dairy-produce : Do you think that that was owing to the operations of the Meat Control Board ? —I am satisfied that but for the operations of the Meat Control Board you would not have got that reduction in meat freight. The Meat Board held a stronger position than the representatives of the dairy people. 26. You think that the dairy people suffered through not having a Board to represent them ? — Undoubtedly. We are not able to make a binding contract. 27. Do you think that the agitation against this Bill is growing ?—I cannot say. I have no reason to think so. 28. It has been stated here, for instance, that your company is against the Bill, but that you have not taken a vote. The Hawera company has been mentioned, too, in the same connection, and it has been generally stated that the agitation against the Bill is growing. You have an intimate knowledge of the way things are going : what is your impression as to such a statement as that ?—I have no knowledge of any growth in the opposition in South Taranaki against the Bill. There was one vote taken at Stratford, and I have no information of any alteration in the feeling there. 29. Now, in regard to the advantage of having a Control Board in respect to selling, can you tell us how the factories sell their output here in New Zealand ? —Well, in the majority of cases there is very little selling done ; it is nearly all open consignment. 30. But certain factories do sell their outputs ?—Well, small factories in the north do. There is none that sell, barring in parcels —not in total outputs. 31. Does your knowledge of pay-outs lead you to consider that those who consigned did better than those who sold ?—Undoubtedly, in 99 per cent, of the cases. 32. What information has a factory got when it sells ? —You get certain information through the merchants. We generally go to the merchants for information, and we get information also from Mr. Ellison, whether it is advisable to consign or not. But for total outputs it is open consignment in Taranaki principally. 33. Do you think that with a Control Board the factories would have better information ? —I am satisfied that they should have. The information we get at the present time is from the individual merchant, and from Mr. Ellison, who is, however, not able to give the work all his time. With a Control Board you would have two or three men stationed in London, and it would be their duty to be in touch with the conditions all over the world- climatic, production, and consumption—and we would be kept well posted with general conditions. But Ido not know that that affects the case as to whether you should sell or consign. We find also, when we do make a sale, that the merchant knows a lot more about the conditions than we do, and usually we come off second best. 34. You think that the small company selling with the knowledge that they have at present must inevitably get a lower price in the end than those who consign ? —ln nearly all cases. We have had two good selling seasons out of about fourteen. I think some of the South Island gentlemen will support me in that. For about ten or twelve years on end the South Island men sold their goods, and the majority of those companies have " missed the bus " all those years. 35. As to-finance, is it not a fact that Tooley Street at the present time is competing with the banks in the matter of exchange ?—That is so ; but I think it is the banks that are competing with Tooley you would put it the right way. 36. That Tooley Street is doing the exchange at a lower rate than the banks ? —That is so. The bank has been urging us to put our surplus through them. 37. Do you think that under the Bill more control by the farmers would be exercised over the exchanges ? —There is every reason for it, to my way of thinking. 38. I understand it is costing a great deal for exchange at the present time : have you any idea what it does cost in exchange ? —No ; but I think you will get that from Mr. Brash. lam not posted up in exchanges. 39. Do you expect that the advances that now exist will increase as the supply becomes much greater ?—I could not say. I would not like to pass an opinion upon that point. 40. With further supplies you would think that the necessity for control will become greater ?— You would naturally think so. 41. Mr. Masters.] Mr. Forsyth, Mr. Langstone asked you if you knew there was an intention to form a dairy-produce pool in Australia, and you replied, Yes, you believed so ; you had heard so. Where are they attempting to form dairying pools in Australia ? —I have only read the paper reports to that effect, that they are moving in a similar direction.