I.—lob.

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| HON. SIR W. BUCHANAN.

Mr. Lysnar : Who is Mr. Logan ? —He was a man engaged by Mr. Swift and others. Who was he ? —A newspaper agent. It is in evidence, also that one of the principal newspapers in connection with the meat trade, the National Provisioned, was in receipt of £1,000 annually from each of the two chief packers, Messrs. Armour and Swift. Does that record show that the proprietors of the newspapers did not know of that—that it was given secretly ? —Yes, that is so. What page is that recorded on ? —Pago 749. On pages 749 50 there is the following letter to Mr. Swift from a Mr. White, one of Mr. Armour's principal men, who is stated in the evidence to enjoy a salary of £17,000 a year : — " Mr. Louis F. Swift, Office-. Chicago, 15th November, 1916. " Mr. C. L. Charles, eff Morris and Co., says that they do not feel that the present plan for advertising in the agricultural publications alone is sufficiently broad, but that we should also make some effort to educate the consumer. On the, other hand, they do not feel that they would want to participate in any expenditure: large enough to influence the consumer in a comprehensive and effective manner, so their position is not logical. " We called a meeting Monday, November 13, at Mr. Charles's request, at 3 o'clock at Mr. Veeder's office, and all were present with the exception of Mr. Charles, who telephoned at a quarter past three that he was tied up in Judge Baton's Court on a case for Edward Morris anel could not bo present at the meeting. '" Mr. Skipwith, of Wilson and Co., says they do not approve of an educational advertising campaign at this time, but would rather start with some kind of a bureau which might furnish men to adelress live-stock men's conventions, write: letters to newspapers, and otherwise promote educational work towards the development of ' more and bettor live-stock ' anel the eradication of disease. " Mi-. Creigh, of Cudahy and Co., says they are in favour of a programme somewhat similar to that proposed by Mr. Skipwith, but at tho present time do not wish to participate in an educational advertising campaign. " Mr. Laughlin, of Armour and Co., and the writer feel that there is no possibility of being able to get on to a common ground with Wilson and Co., Morris and Co., and Cudahy and Co., so they will co-operate, and think it might be well for Armour and Swift to consider doing this work individually. " I suggest that a meeting be arranged, if agreeable to you and Mr. Meeker, so that Messrs. Chaplin, Laughlin, Veeder, anel the writer can talk the matter over with you two gentlemen. " Awaiting your reply, " A.D.W." In connection with this advertising campaign and the use of tho word " education," it comes out in the evidence that while, advertising is a necessary adjunct to every commercial business, the enormous cost of propaganda which I have mentioned was incurred wholly to counteract the evidence given before the President's Commission. Mr. Lysnar : Might I here clear up one point ? Mr. Veeder is the head lawyer for Armemr and the others ? —No, the head counsel for Swift and Co. And also for the: whole combination ? —Yes, he was tho manager of the pool for years. Which included Armour and Co. ?—Yes. Now, Mr. Armour in giving evidence made use of the following language; : " I wish to impress upon this Committee this fact : that the: business of Armour and Co. is conducted in accordance with the highest and best business ethics of the day." In another place he makes use of the following language : " I desire to say with all tho emphasis that words can convey that Armour and Co. are not now and have not been for many years a party in the most remote degree to any pool, arrangement, agreement, or combination of any kind whatever for the: control, regulation, or limitation, or restriction of production of live-stock, or the sale of any of the preielucts or by-products thereof. Any and every statement which charges that such a combination or arrangement exists is untrue." Now, as to the business ethics of Mr. Armour, I have something here that I wish to put before the Committee:, so that they may interpret for themselves the real meaning of the quotation I am going to make :— " Mr. Hency :Do you recall this telegram [reading]: ' Washington, July 7 '■ --This is a telegram from Arthur Meeker to Mr. White, both of whom are directors of Armour and Co. " Mr. Armour : Yes, sir. " Mr. Heney [reading]: ' We: all agree ' " Mr. Armour : What date is that ? " Mr. Heney : Washington, July 7, 1916. I think that is the day that the Judiciary Committee of the House got the Borland resolution reported to it by the sub-committee;, or teiok it under consideration anyhow, or the sub-committee took it under consideratiem on the evidence, I think the- evidence closed on July 7. [Heading resumed :] 'We all agree, that it is very important to flood the Judiciary Committee with telegrams from all over the country, and especially the districts where the: members come from, protesting against the passage of the Borland resolution, on the grounds live-stock selling at very satisfactory prices and any investigation will only disturb present satisfactory conditions. Please arrange a meeting this morning with Veeder and Nelson Morris. Get a committee to work on this promptly —presume banks, commission men, feeders of cattle, and live-stock men generally, and any one else you can think of that would be helpful. Think messages should also be sent to Congressmen as well as members of the Judiciary Committee. The Congressional Directory can give you the list of their names and where they come from. 1 refer to the Judiciary Committee, and not to the sub-judiciary ceunmittee. It is quite important to reach Gard, of Hamilton, Ohio. Perhaps Proctor, of Cincinnati, knows him. Please get as much action as yem ran on this, and promptly, anel have the messages sent varied in language," This is somewhat of a repetition of what came before this Committee at its last sitting, but the point I wish to make, was not alludoel to. " A largo number of telegrams " The Chairman (interposing) : I do not know about the general wisdom of that suggestion, although varying tin; language was a very good suggestion, (Laughter.)