D.—4

32

Statement by Charles Georoe Kblly, Car and Wagon Inspector, Wellington. I was appointed Car and Wagon Inspector for the Wellington District in February, 1915. Before my appointment I acted as Car and Wagon Inspector on two or three occasions, relieving both Mr. Smith and Mr. Moore, the former Car nnd Wagon Inspectors in the Wellington District. I .1111 fully acquainted with the duties and responsibilities of a Car and Wagon Inspector as laid down in Instruction No. 328 in the Loco. Codes. Tho maintenance of cars and wagons is just as good at the present time as it was three years ago, and the instructions regarding the upkeep of condition of rolling-stock affecting the safety have not been amended or relaxed in any shape or form. I have not at any time received any instruction to allow any car or wagon to run in an unsafe condition, and no car or wagon has to my knowledge been run in an unsafo condition. I quite recognize that I am responsible for sending vehicles in neod of repair to the shops, and also for seeing that they are efficiently repaired and fit for service before I pass them out. When I read Mr. WHford's question in the House I at once thought he alluded to draw-bar springs, although he mentioned bearing-springs. As regards the latter, no vehicle, either car or wagon, has been allowed to run with a broken bearing-spring. Broken draw-bar springs have been pieced up, owing to the shortage, but this in no way affects the safety of the vehicle, and this has been done often in years past. The underframes and running-gear of the stock in my control are in first-class running-order, and are in us efficient condition as they were three years ago. I have never allowed any vehicle , either car or wagon, to run in an unsafe condition, and 1 have never been debarred from sending vehicles for repair to the workshops. C. G. Kelly, Car and Wagon Inspector. 18th July, L 916. Locomotive Branch, Inveroargill, 31st July, 1916. Locomotive Engineer, Addington. Condition of Boiling-stock. 1. Regulations regarding repairs and upkeep of rolling-stock have not been altered or relaxed during the last three yoars. 2. I have not been debarred from sending stock in for repairs when I considered it necessary. 3. I fully understand by Loco. Instruction 328 that I am responsible in seeing that rolling-stock is kept in safe running-order, and I have not allowed cars and wagons or vans in an unsafo condition to remain in service. 4. Tho general conditions of running-gear and undeiframes of rolling-stock under my chaige is tho same now as it was three years ago. E. H. Freed, Car and Wagon Inspector. I might here explain that the reason for all the reports being worded similarly is that a memorandum was sent out indicating what had been said, and asking the officers to report and answer certain questions. On the 4th August, 1916 (Hansard, p. 788) the Hon. the Minister moved to lay on the table this document which I have read —namely, D.-6—and which contains the reports of the General Manager and numerous other officers of the Department. It will be seen that the member who had asked tho question relating to the rolling-stock, and moved the motion relating to the rolling-stock, to which I have already referred, did not accept the statements made by these responsible officers. This is what the Hon. Mr. Herries said : "I beg, with the leave of the House, to lay on the table a report by the General Manager of Railways and other officers on the condition of the rolling-stock. As this is a most imnortant matter, I should like to read some of the remarks made, which I think will dispose of the idea that there is anything wrong with the rolling-stock." [Mr. Myers here drew attention to the words in Mr. Veitch's speech, " that there may be some difference between a fact and a departmental report, and also observed that, apart from any other fallacy, Mr. Veitch was assuming that what he was saying applied to carriages as well as to wagons.] Mr. Veitch in his speech also makes a rather curious statement. He appears to think that when you have a spring in two parts those two parts, when the pressure is exerted, form a compact mass and remain a compact mass. T may not perhaps understand what he says, but it is extremely diffioult, even to a lay mind like my own, to understand how such a state of things can possibly happen. I can understand that when the pressure is exerted the spring becomes compact, but when the pressure is released one would suppose the spring also becomes released, and does not become compact again until the pressure is again exerted, though I do not profess to know much about it. Mr. Wilford followed Mr. Veitch, and in his speech he said, — Sir, the papers proposed to be laid on the table by the Minister have come to the Houfo through a question raised recently by myself, as is mentioned in the reply, fam not satisfied with the reply, and T propose to give my reason for being dissatisfied. The suggestion that the rolling-stock of the railways is not in the best of order, or the inquiry whether the rolling-stock is in order, is interpreted as a reflection on the Engineer who has charge of the rolling-stock of the railways. What happens ? As soon as a member of Parliament makes such a suggestion it is referred to the officer concerned, who immediately sets about preparing a defence. How does he go to work ? He first of all brings his mind to boar on the men who are under him, and who are alike responsible with himself for the condition of things, and he says to them, directly or indirectly, " All you gentlemen are on your trial as much as I am. You have to answer this query, just as I have to answer it. I expect you to report to me immediately, so that I may embody in my reply to Parliament all your subsidiary reports as a defence of myself and, inter alia, of yourselves." Then we have produced to Parliament the report of the officer who is responsible, together with the reports of the subsidiary officers whom he holds responsible, and we are asked to accept that as an answer to the query. Tt seems to me to be a farce if when any question is raised in regard to a Government Departmert the answer of the departmental officer concerned is to be the last word which settles tho responsibility or otherwise of that officer. T suggested when discussing the matter previously that Mr. James Marchbanks, who at present is engineer to the Harbour Hoard, and was for years engineer for the Manawatu Railway Company, and one other outside engineer should be askod by the Minister to inspect the rollingstock and to forward their reports to the House upon the condition of that rolling-stock, and not to allow the gentlemen concerned to give this answer, and to accept that answer as final. You cannot expect that any departmental officer who considers a question is being asked about his Department is going to plead guilty to even want of thought or want of consideration for public concerns. There is no doubt whatever, from the reports that have been given to me, that there is a necessity for outside inquiry. If a report were obtained from two men, of whom Mr. Marchbanks would be one, and one other—for I am sure Mr. Marchbanks is a thoroughly honourable, straightforward, and capable man—then the country would be satisfied and everybody would be satisfied. I believe that if there was anything wrong with the rolling-stock of this country, it does not matter what displeasure a member might incur by mentioning it, it is his duty to mention it and see that the matter is gone thoroughly into. Now, I have had it stated to me by a man who was himself concerned with that rolling-stock, ihat he declined to carry the burden of responsibility on his shoulders, and that ho made his representation to me for that reason, and asked me to pass it along.