E. K. MULGAN.]

5

1.—13 a.

37. About the compulsory attendance at the daylight continuation classes, what is your idea? Do you suggest that the employers should Ik- asked to better meet the convenience of the boys, or do you want it put into legislation that these compulsory continuation classes must be established.' —1 do not know whether it is well to speak about these matters at the present juncture, but I do feel that this question will have to lie dealt with. I would like it not to be lost sight of by those who undertake the responsibility of framing regulations ami Education Bills. I think the employers should lie required to give their apprentices or employees a certain amount of time off to enable them to attend the classes, but when is the lime to do it is a different matter. 38. Do you think it opportune just now to put into legislation anything compulsory in this way?—I do not know that it is; but I think we might in some way or another indicate in the Bill that such a change is likely to take place before long. 39. Can you tell us whether the Auckland Education Board are or are not in favour of the proposals in regard to the inspectorate?—No, I cannot. It is not that I do not want to, but I really do not know. 40. Speaking as an Inspector who has bad much experience of that branch of the work, are you in favour of those proposals?—l am strongly in favour of them, and always have been in favour of the centralizing of the Inspectors. 41. I ask you as a member of the Board, or as an Inspector, whichever you like, whether you have any serious grievance to find in the schedule as regards the grading of salaries of the teachers?—l do not know that I have any serious grievance to find against the salaries. I realize that it is a very difficult matter to provide sufficient money to satisfy everybody, but I feel that we have not gone far enough yet in respect of salaries. In Auckland we have a great deal of difficulty in finding efficient teachers to man the out-of-the-way backblock schools. The staffs in the larger schools also are not sufficient. If we increase the staffing of our larger schools in the towns that will deplete the country districts of the more efficient teachers, and we can hardly hope to obtain a sufficient number of really efficient teachers for both large and small schools. We require to make the service more attractive to get the teachers, and the most effective way to do that is to improve the scale of salaries. lam (.dad to see that the salaries attached to schools where teachers are likely to spend their lives have been increased—that is. Grades IV and V. 42. Mr. MrCaJlum.] Are you aware of any appeal from a Board's transfer of a teacher?— I know of absolutely none in our district. The transfers have always been very carefully made. and where in some case we think the teacher might possibly object to a transfer we ask him the question. Practically there has been no case in Auckland, since that clause came into operation, of a teacher having appealed against a transfer. We have refrained in certain cases from transferring teachers, realizing that there would Ix; an appeal if we did transfer them. 43. Have you had any appeals in the Auckland District?—l might modify my previous answer by saying that there has not been one since 1904. 44. Do you not think that the power in regard to appeal has a bad effect on education ?—I would not answer that Yes or No. To some extent it has had a bad effect, but I should be very sorry to see the power taken away. 45. The local authority under the clause is the Magistrate. Should not a Judge of the Supreme Court at least be substituted for the Magistrate?—l have not considered the matter. 46. Do you not consider that the members of the Auckland Board, administering the education system in respect to one-fourth of the children of the Dominion, are higher educational authorities than any Magistrate?—l do not know that I can answer that question. You want a man of the world in a sense, one who has a judicial mind, to deal with these appeals. Ido not think it requires necessarily a man who understands the details and practice of teaching. 'I here would be such a man. no doubt, on the Hoard or in the Court, but not having considered the matter my opinion is not very decided. 47. As to the compulsory attendance at the continuation classes, up to what age would you suggest?—Say up to seventeen or eighteen. 48. Regarding the new scale of salaries, do you think it is fair that a country school-teacher with over forty or fifty children in grades running over five standards should draw the same salary as the third assistant in the scl lof five hundred pupils) —As a general rule I think it is not.

Edmund Campbell Puhdie examined. (No. 2.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you?—A member of the Auckland Board of_Education. 2. Will you make a statement to the Committee?—l desire to say that 1 have taught in every type of primary school, in the secondary school, and I have been an Inspector of Schools. In the first place 1 should like to say. on behalf of the Auckland Education Board, that the Board is heartily in accord with the spirit of the Bill. We have- not been sent down here in any complaining spirit at all, but merely to point out one or two matters which we think might be remedied when the Bill is in Committee. The Auckland Education Board was the first Board in New Zealand to pass a self-denying ordinance in respect to the teacher. It withdrew by its grading scheme its power to appoint the teacher, and it recognizes that this Bill withdraws from it the power of appointing Inspectors. Though the Board does not approve of that, still the members acquiesce in it. They also recognize that this Bill withdraws to n ureal extent the power of the Boards of Education in the matter of the establishment of new schools, and the Auckland Board acquiesces in that. Ml. Mulgan was sent down here to represent the Board because it was recognized that within another twelve months he will practically be an officer of the Department, and that that adds weight to bis evidence insomuch as he is not directly responsible to the Board for any evidence he may give, although he has given evidence on lilies indicated to him by the Board. I should like to