C—l 4.

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[f. reed.

1127. You admitted that it had not been shown yet definitely that gas is being produced at that old fall ?—lt is being emitted from the upper stratum above the old fall. 1128. That is your opinion ?—The exact locality has not been proved, and it may never be proved. 1129. It has never been proved whether it is an outburst or a blower ? —I believe that can only be found out by exploration. 1130. That is a matter of opinion ?■ —Yes. My opinion is sound ; it has proved itself to be sound in regard to this explosion, which.l foretold. This is an easier question than that. 1131. These bords are contained in the area in regard to which you say the plan indicates that the ventilation has short-circuited and that there is ample opportunity for gas to be accumulated ?—Just the place for an accumulation of firedamp. 1132. You are aware, at any rate, that within a fortnight previously men had been there with naked lights : did you hear Brownlie's evidence ?—No. 1133. He has said that on the previous Saturday fortnight he met Deputy Smith on the other side of that door in that section, not where the old fall is, but in the bord, taking rails through the door ? —Did he try the roof for gas ? 1134. At any rate, does not the fact that men working there with naked lights lifting rails indicate that there was some ventilation there ? —No, it does not. A man can work in stagnant air, with explosive gas on the roof above his head and not ignite it. 1135. But you said in these places there was no ventilation l . —l repeat that the plan shows this place to be a cul-de-sac; there was no means of directing the air through that cul-de-sac. 1136. Where did you go ?- —We walked round about this section. 1137. You did not explore thoroughly all the bords in that area marked with green ink ? —No ; but I explored bords Nos. 4, 5, and 6 —the gaseous area. 1138. You are not able to say whether there was or was not any bratticing there '{- I found no brattice there, and your surveyor's plan shows no stoppings or no ventilation equipment of any kind within this area. The plan shows the air short-circuited. 1139. But you did not make an inspection of the whole area ?- -No, but the upper portion of it has no ventilation equipment at all. The lower portion I did not examine. 1140. So far as any ventilation appliances are concerned, you are basing your statement on the plan ? —And my own inspection. 1141. From you own inspection can you say that there were no ventilation appliances ?—Not as regards the whole section, but there was none in the upper portion. I can swear that I saw none. 1142. The whole gaseous zone ?—Above the level of Martin's body, in bords Nos. 4, 5, and 6, there was not the slightest indication of anything to direct the air to the dead ends. This portion which was filled with gaseous mixture was devoid of ventilation. 1143. Did you suggest that in order to test for gas a man should carry a glass I —No, but I say that for an expert to read minutely he should have a magnifying-glass. 1144. But it would not require a glass as good as yours ?—No, a glass worth 10s. would be quite sufficient. 1145. Now, as to your reasons for thinking there would be an explosion in the Taupiri Mine : when did you make that tabulation ?—When I heard of those explosions, in January, the reasons for fearing a disaster passed through my mind. 1146. Did you set them down anywhere in writing ? —No; that is, I did not write them down then. 1147. When did you first write them down ? —Before I came here —they were notes made by me yesterday morning to refresh my memory. 1148. They were not communicated to anybody until you gave them in evidence here ?—ln my letters I speak about some of the principal ones. 1149. They were not communicated to anybody otherwise than as they appear in your letters ? —No, it is not my business to create fears in the general public. 1150. On what evidence did you base your statement that we have a lot of men here inexperienced in testing gas ?—That is natural. When they come up for examination I have to demonstrate to them —to teach them how to read a gas-cap —before examining them. From my knowledge of the New-Zealand-born miners, I do not think many of them are skilled in gas-reading. 1151. Are you aware that all the deputies here were trained at Home ? —I do not know the experience of all the deputies here. 1152. You are not aware that some of them were trained in your own district, Durham ?—Some of them may be, but those men did not come to me for gas-testing certificates. 1153. But your statement is that these men are inexperienced all round, as far as gas is concerned ? —That is, generally. 1154. Then was that statement based on sufficient evidence ? —How could these New-Zealanders learn about gas. 1155. You made a statement which you afterwards had to qualify ?—1 altered the words " all round " to " generally." 1156. You do not get the whole facts ? —As many facts as I can get. 1157. You had no knowledge when you made that statement as to the qualifications of the deputies in the Taupiri Mine ?—I had reason to form an opinion as to their qualifications because only one of them had got his certificate up to March last; that was Young. 1158. But he was not a deputy ? -He was an assistant inspector of old workings. 1159. Did you know whether these men had been tested for gas ?—Considering that the gas-cap-observation machine I was using was the first introduced into the Dominion I naturally knew.