C—l 2.

40

[T. S. HOUSTON.

and partly from the Epakauri Reserve. Probably seven-eighths of the whole had been dug from his own land. Austrians paid a royalty of 10 per cent, for digging on his own field, and other diggers must deal at his own store. Digging over his own land had been going on for the past twenty years, and the area dug on was from 400 to 500 acres. [Witness handed in a statement showing the value of the gum purchased by him during the past four years, as follows : 1909-10, £2,152 18s. 6d.; 1910-11, £1,847 35.; 1911-1*!, £2,341 Is. 7d.; 1912-13, £2,653 14s. 7d.] To Mr. Greville!] In regard to the wine-shops existing in different parts of the various gumfields, they should certainly be stopped and not allowed to continue in any shape or form. They were conducive to great immorality. That was the general opinion in the districts. He had known of cases where gum was bartered for wine, and in such instances the cash buyer was beaten every time. The usual experience was that whenever a field opened the wine-shops followed. .The Maoris became demoralized; they could not dig and ran into debt. To Mr. McKay.] Besides destroying the gum, the fires in the peat swamps destroyed the earth to a depth of from 2 ft. to 6 ft. James Noble Berghan, J.P., of Ahipara. To Mr. Greville.] He had been in the gum trade all his life, and knew the district well, and corroborated the statements of the former witness. In regard to the stopping of fires, he did not think it would be altogether a hardship on the digger, at all events in the Ahipara district. Probably the best authority to fix dates when fires should not be lit would be the County Council. [Witness handed in a statement showing the value of the gum purchased by him. for the past five years, as follows: March. 1909, to March, 1910, £3,048 Is. 7d.; March, 1910, to March, 1911, £3,243 7s. 4d.; March, 1911, to March, 1912, £3,947 13s. 2d.; March, 1912, to March, 1913, £2,758 Bs. 9d.; March, 1913, to March, 1914, £4,055. Roughly, 20 per cent, of this gum was purchased from diggers working on privately owned grounds.] He knew the country well to the south of Ahipara, and most of the gum-digging was on the Crown land and not on the gum reserves there. Both Ahipara and Epakauri Reserves he regarded as good fields and not worked* out. There was a very good quality of black gum obtained from these reserves and Crown land contiguous from 2 ft. to 12 ft. deep. To Mr. Stafford.] He regarded the Crown land in question as well suited for occupation by diggers in areas of, say, 25 acres, under the Land Act Regulations. To Mr. Stewart.] In regard to the sand-drift, he quite agreed with the former witness. His brother had endeavoured to obtain sand-binding grasses and plants from the Government, but without success. To Mr. Greville.] He quite agreed with Mr. Houston's remarks about the wine-shops on the gumfields and the evils they brought about. William Atherton, resident in Ahipara for nine years, and a Gum-digger for twelve years. To Mr. Greville.] He was on the Great Barrier Island about nine years ago, but there was not much digging then, -and he could not say if the gum reserve specially set apart for the diggers had ever been dug over, as he had dug on the property of the Kauri Timber Company (Limited). He agreed generally with the statements of former witnesses, except in regard to fires on the reserves, as it seemed to him impossible to stop firing altogether even in swamps. Firing in some fields was quite necessary for the digger. The most damage from fires occurred in the peaty soils. He was of opinion that the wine-shop evil should be stamped out altogether. The scenes that occurred very frequently were dreadful, and were productive of wretchedness on all sides. He knew of the existence of five shops at one time at the field known as " Sweetwater."

Awanui, Saturday, 11th April, 1914. Alfred Hibbs Long, J.P., Farmer, Storekeeper, and Gum-buyer, of Mangatete. To Mr. Greville.] He was acquainted very- well with the Pairetahi Gum Reserve, and was of opinion that there was a fair amount of gum in it, but confined entirely to the edge of the river, and was probably drift-gum. On the flat on the eastern boundary there did not appear to be much, if any, gum left, as the ground had been fully exploited, and there was nothing to induce diggers to remain there. He had never bought gum from that locality. The land between Mangatete and Pairetahi was subject to flood, but gum-bearing, and a good deal of gum had been obtained there. The eastern portion of the reserve would be good land for farming, and there was no longer gum in it sufficient to justify the Government in holding it back. It certainly should be utilized for farming purposes. He knew the Puketoetoe and Pukewhau Reserves fairly well, and had on different occasions bought gum from there. There was still a fair amount of digging going on over them. The lower portions of the reserves did not appear to be gum-bearing. Hooking had been tried in the raupo swamp, but apparently without any success. Regarding the hill country on those reserves, it varied considerably, and there were areas in them non-gum-bearing, while in other parts gum was still obtainable. Last winter there were a considerable number of men digging on the flat on the west side of the foreshore past the lake. The hills in the Pukewhau Reserve contained no gum, but the foreshore had gum, though it was not a rich field. There had not been much digging on the Puketoetoe Reserves lately, but he regarded them as gum-bearing country except on the hills, as stated previously, and, on the whole, that country had very well been gazetted reserves and should continue for some years yet. Probably there were patches here and there on them quite fit for cultivation, but they would be difficult to point out unless explored. Regarding the Pukewhau Reserve, the lower part of the swamp and the south-east end of the reserve were non-gum-bearing. He bought from £1,000 to £1,500 worth