m J. HAGGER.]

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C—l 2.

To Mr. Greville 1] Tiie population of Waiharera was about 250 Europeans and Maoris, the field supporting, he considered, about 1,000 souls, though all the married diggers did not have their families with them. It was also the centre of the industry, -and the export during the summer months from the two northern ports amounted to three thousand sacks per week. He knew the country across the bay (Puheke Reserve), and formerly had a branch store there. The country was much the same as around Waiharera, and at present carries a large population, chiefly Maoris. Certain swamps there he believed to be devoid of gum. To Mr. Stewart.] He could not see how the difficulty about potholes could be got over. Edward Costar, Gum-digger, of Waiharera. To Mr. Greville.] He knew the field thirty-two years ago, but did not think the Motutangi Swamp to be of any use to digger or settler in its present state. The Government should undertake its drainage, but to cut up the land afterwards in areas of 2 to 4 acres would not be of much use unless the land proved to contain gum. In regard to fires on swamps, they were unavoidable if the digger wanted to dig. The Government might restrict them on Motutangi if drained. To Mr. Stafford.] He had dug around the Kaimarama Lake with very fair results. Gum had been found below the sandstone 2 ft. down, and as deep as 7 ft. or 8 ft. He considered it a good field, which would not be worked out for many years. The kauri-gum reserves should have corner-posts to mark the boundaries. Patrick Shine, Gum-digger, of Waiharera (who had been examined at a previous meeting), drew the attention of the Commission to the possibilities of the flax industry if promoted in the swamp country when drained.

Waipapakauri, Monday, 6th April, 1914. Joseph Evans, sen., resident in the district for forty-nine years, thirty-one years of which had been spent in the gum trade. To Mr. Greville.] He knew all the gum areas in the district very well, and was aware there were large swamps in the reserves that would not yield enough gum to buy salt for a man's porridge. The reserve adjoining Subritsky's had never had a shovelful of gum taken out of it, as it was not in the ground. Nearer Waiharera there were big areas of hilly land certainly non-gum-bearing, and quite suited for growing vines and getting a living off if some satisfactory title could be given. Some of the flats about the hills were still rich in gum. though he had dug there himself twenty-five years ago. The same ground was still profitable, and even more profitable than when he had dug, because better prices were obtainable and the more inferior stuff could be turned to account. To Mr. Stafford.] So far as the potholes were concerned he could see no way of overcoming the difficulty, and it was impracticable to insist on diggers filling them up as they went along. Diggers might be willing, but they were too tired to go back on their work. To Mr. Greville.] Firing he believed to be necessary for the digger and unavoidable, and it would stand in the way of flax-growing. Constant burning was very costly, and, of course, against the interests of the digger, but quite unavoidable as far as he could see. He knew there were large areas in the gum reserves between Waipapakauri and Waiharera, and also down to Ahipara, which were non-gum-bearing and ought to be cut up and settled. So far as dug-over fields were concerned the only suggestion he could make to utilize them would be to have them levelled up, dug, and planted with some variety of strong grass and afterwards leased by the Crown. To Mr. Stafford.] So far as treating peat-soil for by-products was concerned, he had not particularly considered the matter. [Witness proceeded to give his experience when in London ten years ago in regard to the grading and sale of gum on the market, which led him to believe that at that time there existed a " ring " controlling the sale of gum-supplies from New Zealand.] Frederick Russell, a Gum-digger for twenty-two years, and now a Settler in the district -and also still handling gum. To Mr. Greville.] From Waiharera down to Ahipara gum was rarely found on the hills, having been dug out over twenty years ago wherever it existed. No one could say that a swamp was barren of gum until it had been put through a sieve. He was of opinion that the various Governments had never tried to foster the industry or help the diggers. The swamp between Rio and Stony Crossing Creek was known to him, and he was of opinion it should be drained by the Government and opened for application on a royalty charge. Sections might comprise 40 to 50 acres, taking in the hills and including 5 to 10 acres of the swamp land to help the selector in carrying out his improvements. About sixteen hundred sacks of gum per month were carted out of the field known as " Sweetwater " all the year round, and he himself carted about a thousand sacks of that quantity. He could produce books to show it, or the same information could be obtained from the gum-buyers' books. He did not think the flax industry could be run hand-in-hand with the gum trade. To Mr. Stafford.] He knew the sections rounds Lakes Rotoroa, Ngatu, Woodlake, Te Kapua, and small Waiparera all contained gum, but there was no gum on the hills in the same locality. So far as firing was concerned, he thought it ought to be limited to certain months in the year — say, November to April. Probably Gazette notices to that effect, also newspaper notices, and