I.—9a.

40

JR. BBEEN

7. You say where they were organized the Judge refused to make an award?— Yes, the Arbitration Court has that power, unfortunately. The powers of the Court are unlimited. 8. As far as your trade is concerned you do not hesitate to say these powers are exercised detrimentally?—No; and yet I believe the object of Mr. Justice Sim was to be lair. I believe he considered that by joining these people to an award they would be driven out of business. !l. Mr. 11 in //mar ph.] Do you think it would bring ruin on them? —No, 1 do not. The people we were seeking to join were doing the same trade as other people who were bound under our award, and if it were going to injure anybody it would injure those who were bound. Instead of injuring them other establishments were being opened to cater for the same class of business. 10. You would have thought the Arbitration Court would at least have made inquiries. No evidence was given at all, I suppose?—l think one or two employers were called. My memory is not quite clear about it. When Mr. Justice Sim told me what 1 would have to do I told him that we could not prove what the tariff was till we summoned evidence. He told me I should have done so. It struck me that as the employers were in the Court 1 might put them in the box, but when I called the first witness Mr. Scott advised all the others to leave the ('unit. They did so, and I was left with only one witness, and 1 could not prove what the tariff was. 11. To Mr. Pryor.~\ The other side gave no reasons at all. They just made a general statement. I did not get an opportunity to conduct my case properly, but while 1 did not think I got a square deal I am not going to condemn the tribunal. 12. Mr. Glover.] Do you not think, if the hotels and boardinghouses were better organized, they would give the concessions asked for without incurring additional expense?—Oh, yes. When they were working eighty hours a week the argument was the same. When they were tied down to sixty-five hours a week they said they would have to increase the stall, but experience has proved, so far as Dunedin is concerned, that they did not have to increase their staff. They either rearranged the hours of the staffs so as to give time off, or they did not comply with the award. Ihe whole of the employees could not take a holiday on the one day. It is not provided in the Bill that they should. 13. Mr. Veitch.] You stated that you attended several conferences of the hotel employees covering a considerable period. How many conferences have there been? —I think I attended three or four annual conferences. 14. Have you reason to believe that the hotel employees are practically unanimous in asking for this concession? —Well, they are practically unanimous, hut I could not say they are wholly unanimous, because there are people who do not want anything, but when it is forced upon them they take it. 15. You mean to say they are afraid to ask for it, but if somebody else fights for it they take it? —Yes. 16. Are you aware that the Court refused an award to private-hotel employees in Auckland? —Yes. They first refused to join these people to the award in Dunedin. The Court did the same thing in Christchurch as in Auckland. 17. In regard to the ruinous effect alleged this is a fail , assumption—that the only ones likely to be ruined are those under the award: they are likely to lie worse off than those left nut:—Yes, because those under the award are under the award not only as far as hours are concerned, but also in regard to wages, while the people we are trying to bring under the Acl are free to pay what wages they like. 18. What you say is that it is not fair to iln.se under the award to allow other people to compete on equal terms without bringing them under the award also? —Mosi unfair. In Dunedin the boardinghouses 1 have referred to are doing exactly the same class of trade. 10. Mr. Wilkinson.] Would two half-days lie practicable? — l do not think two half-days are as advantageous as one whole day. A half-day is not a half-day when you start at f> or 7in the morning and finish at 2 in the afternoon. That is really a whole day of an ordinary man's time. 20. We have fairly conclusive evidence that the boardinghouse and hotel proprietors could not run their business if.this Act were brought into operation. Do you think it is practicable for them to do so?— One can only answer that as the result of experience. The best proof we have that it will not ruin them is the fact that it has not ruined those already bound. 21. Evidence was brought before the Committee to show that these people could not oarry on successfully if what you ask is allowed. We have not heard anything from the other side? —We have only the experience of the past and of other countries to guide us in these things we are asking. They have been tried and have not failed in other parts of the world. When the half-holiday was introduced the same argument was used, and I feel almost sure that when the employers are reconciled to it they will be abl< to reorganize their staffs so that there will not be difficulties and great expense. 22. Witnesses this morning have prophesied that their business will be destroyed?—ln Dunedin, before the union was formed, girls were working eighty hours a week for 12s. 6d. and 15s. To-day they are getting 225., and the hours are much lower and the tariff the same as it was then. 23. Mr. Veitch.] That was a much bigger change than you are asking for now ! Yes. 24. Mr. Okey.] Do you know anything about the wages they are working for in clubs? 1 know of one case where I can safely say the wages are "20 per cent, lower than in the licensed hotels. 25. Do you think it is a rule of clubs to pay less wages?— They may work on a different system, but where they employ women my information is that they pay considerably less than under the awards,