I.—6a.

[j. H. HOOTON.

34

62. Mr, Kennedy.] I want you to explain what the usual practice was when you arrived at New Lynn with No. 5: what was the usual practice before the accident in the way of shunting? —We would run in on the main line, take water, and then go ahead and back the train into the loop. 63. Just describe to the Committee what you do to put that train into the the driver a "Go-ahead" signal, open the points, and usually blow my xvhistle—txvo short whistles—indicating to tlie driver " Come back." Owing to the position of the bank it is almost impossible to see the driver unless you get on to the bank, and I found it easier to bloxv the whistle ami sit on the points in preparation for his coming back. 64. Is that a " Come back " signal according to the regulation? Is there any rule in the rule-book that allows you to bring a train back in that way —by giving txvo short whistles? —I think the usual thing is to give him a hand-signal 65. I want to know whether it is in accordance with the regulations for you to bring the train back with two short whistles? —I did not say it was in accordance with the regulations: I merely said it was a " Come back " signal. 66. I want to know whether it is. in accordance with the regulations, a proper signal for a guard to give for a driver to set back? —No, it is not. 67. It was merely a signal that you gave as being suitable, and yon understood each other, I suppose?— Yes, that was the position. It really rouires two men, I suppose, to put the train back and conform xvith the regulation? —Of course, it would be easier, but 1 do not think that to conform with tho regulations ii is necessary. 69. You have just shown that you cannot do it —that you have to use your whistle?—l did not say it was impossible to bring the train back. I said I found it easier, instead of climbing the bank and giving him a hand-signal, to sit on tho points and bloxv my whistle —indicating to the driver to set back. 70. Can you climb the bank and give the driver a hand-sign il to come back? —Oh, yes. 71. He can see you ?—Yes. 72. He could have seen you on that morning if ho liked?— Yes, I think so. 73. You have heard Mr. Bouncy say he could not? —I heard him say ho could not see the porter, yet the porter says he can see the engine. I think it is a harder job for Mr. Benney lo see the porter than for the porter to see the engine, inasmuch as the engine is a much bigger object. A big object is easier to see in a fog than a small one. 74. It is only a short distance, and you could see a man's hand at that distance?— Yes. 75. So that if a man who was signalling the train could see Mr. Benney, then Mr. Bennex could have been able to see the man? —No. I do not say that. 76. You know the regulation I in the Appendix xvith regard to tablet working—clause (//) ' —Yes. 77. Do you consider'that that clause applies to New Lynn Station? —No, I do not. 78. Is New Lynn at the foot of a grade?— Yes. it is at the foot of a grade, certainly, but tho actual grade is some distance from New Lynn Station. It is nearly a quarter of a mile from the actual foot of the grade. It is not a very stiff grade, and is hardly noticeable. 79. Tt is near the foot of a grade?— Yes, it is near a grade, but it is not actually on the grade. 80. Are you still of opinion that that clause does not apply to Now Lynn?— Yos, lam still of opinion that it does not apply. 81. If it did apply to New Lynn do you think the train could have gone up the main line and shunted as it did?—l think he was quite justified in doing what he did. 82. There was no danger?—T did not see any danger. 83. Rule 158 states, "During a fog or falling snow, or where, in consequence of the station being approached upon a falling gradient, or for any othei reason, special instructions for working are issued, no obstructions must be allowed at tho station inside tho home signal until the line is blocked to the signal-box in one or both directions, as may bo necessary"? -Yes. I know that rule. 84. Do you consider that rule applied to New Lynn on that morning?—l do not think tho fog xvas sufficiently dense to justify us in not doing what we did. 85. You do not think that applies to New Lynn ? —No. Ido not think so. I suppose it applies to any station, not necessarily to Noxv Lynn. 86. If then xvas a fog at New Lynn that morning it must have applied?—Of course, there w as a fog. 87. Then it must have applied?— Yes. 88. And if there xvas.a falling gradient towards Now Lynn it must apply?— Yes. 89. Rule 250 states. " All trains taking sidings to allow other trains to pass or cross must, unless otherwise instructed, enter from the nearest end, and must not draw ahead and back into the siding except under proper protection "I —That is so. 90. Do you think it was better to do as you did that morning, or would it have been more in conformity xvith that rule if you had drawn in at the bottom end? —I think wo wore using proper protection in going within tho proper limits of the home signal. T think that was the necessary protection. (11. You do not think you would have been conforming more with the rules if you had drawn in at tho bottom end?— That is a question for the tablet porter. If ho does that, that is an end of it so far as we are concerned. 92. .1//. Dickson.] Who was working the points for this train on the morning of the accident Porter Bearie,