1.—17.

90

J. E. DALTON.

£225 rental for the two pieces for half the term of the lease, twenty-eight years. The lease was for fifty-six years? —Yes. 33. That would be £225 for the first twenty-eight years and £450 for the remainder of the lease. In all the leases there is a condition that the Natives should be held free from all rates and taxes. [Exhibit SSS put in]? —Yes. 34:. Under the circumstances, throwing }'our eye buck from 1876 to the present time, and considering all the troubles I had to go through and that the Natives were all round the property, do you think that a fair rental? —At the time it was, because it was as much as a man's life was worth to go on those lands in those days —1876. 35. There was a purchase there prior, by the Crown, of 40,000 acres fee-simple?— That is on the Marikupa side. 36. There were 40,000 acres in Judge Rogan's purchase: taking the two together, do you not think my deal is a much more liberal one for the Natives than 3d. an acre for the land adjoining? —Yes, I do, because the land to the north is much more adaptable for grazing. A great deal of the country is limestone country. I am not talking of the minerals, but from a grazing point of view the Awakino has a great deal of that. 37. I asked you to read the Stout-Palmer Commission's report? —Yes. 38. You had it for two nights: now, does not that speak of me in unmeasured terms? — Well, it certainly does speak very unfavourably of your dealings. Of course, it would be rather a presumption on my part to criticize the Chief Justice's report. I can say that the whole of your dealings with me have been thoroughly straightforward and honourable as far as I know. 39. Take the particular paragraph in the middle of page 7 : "It does not seem to us that any sympathy is required for those who dealt with them (the Natives) in their leasehold transactions "1 —As far as I know your transactions with the Natives, as far as I was acquainted with you, were straightforward and honourable. 40. And if there had been anything bad you would have heard of it from the Natives? —I think I should. 41. Mr, Statham.] Are you aware that Mr. Jones got any compensation from the Government for anything he did?— Not that I am aware of. I might say that the Mokau business has gone out of my mind entirely since I saw Mr. Jones twenty years ago. It was not until I met Mr. Jones here the other evening that I remembered anything at all. 42. Do you believe that Mr. Jones rendered material service to the Government?—l think that was acknowledged by Sir George Grey and Mr. Sheehan at the time. We were all present, and if Mr. Sheehan wanted any of the Natives to discuss matters at that meeting I saw that Mr. Jones went and fetched them. 43. Mr. McCallvm.] What was your position in connection with the transactions between the Natives and the Government, or between Mr. Jones and the Government? —I had no position between Mr. Jones and the Government. I was simply an interpreter. 44. For whom? —I was Employed by Mr. Jones on some occasions and by Captain Messenger on others. Captain Messenger was the attesting officer, as it were. 45. You were not employed by the Government in any way?—l got no remuneration from Captain Messenger, but he asked me to see if everything was right, as he was not a Maori linguist. 46. Did you witness the deeds? —No, I think Mr. Grace did. At that time an interpreter could not take any part in the negotiations. 47. You only acted as a friend to Mr. Jones? —He always paid me. 48. Were you often employed? —On several occasions. 49. Your duties to him were performed concurrently with those for other people?—l was not employed always. 50. He was your client when he entered into these negotiations on different occasions? —Yes. 51. Hon. the Chairman.] The aukati line was an imaginary line over which it was forbidden that any European should pass?— That is so. 52. In the earlier questions put to you you said, " I speak from hearsay " : what did you mean ? I want to ask you afterwards how far your own knowledge extends. In the first place you said, with regard to the facts that took place, you spoke from hearsay. From whom did you get this hearsay—from the Natives? —It was generally talked about there, because it caused a good deal of excitement at the time, and I afterwards heard of it from Wetere himself. 53. You did not intend that statement to extend over the questions that followed?— No. 54. Where you speak of being employed as interpreter, for instance, and by Captain Messenger, you are speaking from your own knowledge? —Yes. 55. Mr. Jones.'] When the original deed was signed you had no connection with me at all, if you remember ?—No. 56. And there were some couple of years between the signing of that deed and your acting for the other deeds? —Between the time I was with Captain Messenger and this agreement, yes. 57. There were three or four years between? —There was some considerable time. I was employed by some one else —by George Stockman, I think. Joshua Jones re-examined. (No. 18.) 1. Hon. the Chairman.] I just want to ask you this question : Did you receive any notice from any one that it was intended to repeal the special Act of 1888? —No. sir; I was in London at the time, and both Acts of 1885 and 1888 were repealed together. I knew nothing about it.