[j. JONES.

1.—17.

34

do." He jumped into the car and was off. Immediately after he came back, from Rotorua I came down from Mokau according to his suggestion to me before I left. I am sorry to have to tell you that I always had the greatest confidence in Sir Joseph Ward, but he denies my statement point-blank in Mansard,. In replying to Mr. Wright he said Jones had made use of his name in an unwarrantable manner to a statement that was not true. When I came down I managed to see him, about the 25th January, 1911. I wrote him a letter that day. I was a bit annoyed at him keeping me humbugging about, and I said that I would prefer him not to make ■appointments rather than to make them and not keep them. I said, " I ask you now to buy this land from the Natives. You can get it for £15,000, and then you can deal with me as you agreed to deal with me before. You were to give me an extended lease of the minerals." He said, "We will extend your leases longer on account of the trouble you have had." I asked him to carry out then what we had a previous understanding about — with Mr. Treadwell .and myself. He said, "I am advised that we cannot do it." I asked him who advised him, and lie said, "Mr. Salmond." I said, "Did he advise you that you cannot buy this property and deal with me?" and he said "Yes." I said, "I ask you to set up the inquiry you promised me in 1908." He said, " There is no power. As I said in the House, the trouble is between private people, and the Government are not concerned." I said, " Sir Joseph Ward, you must know my complaint includes the Government through Dr. Findlay's interference. I say the Government are interested in this thing. If he as a Minister abuses his position I ought not to suffer for that." He said, " Mr. Salmond advises me that I cannot do it." I said, "Allow me to tell you now that on both points you are misled. You have power to buy and deal with me, and you also have the power to set up an inquiry." He said he would not do it, and Ido not think I have spoken to Sir Joseph Ward since. I am perfectly certain that he had the power to set up the inquiry and to purchase the land. 10. Mr. Did you take legal advice as to that?— Yes. I still maintain that Sir Joseph Ward was misled, and I repeat to this Committee that there was power to purchase the land. 11. Hon. the, Chairman."] Whom was he misled by?—l said, " Mr. Salmond has misled you, and Dr. Findlay." He said, " I know your opinion of Dr. Findlay." " Yes," I said, " and it is a well-grounded one." Then he said, " I cannot do it." 12. Mr. Anderson.~\ Whose advice did you take in regard to Mr. Salmond's opinion?—l took Mr. Jellicoe's advice. He was one of those I discussed the matter with. You must remember that Sir Joseph Ward had. made an agreement with me prior to that, in the presence of Mr. Treadwell, that he would do these things. lam under no misapprehension at all about the agreement* he had made in the presence of Mr. Treadwell. 13. What was the agreement —what were the terms of it?—l shall have to refer to the cable, which said, " We will give £100,000 and build a harbour at Mokau according to Government plans." Sir Joseph Ward looked at it and said it would be a splendid thing to have a harbour built at Mokau. (See paragraph 42 of petition.) I said to Sir Joseph Ward, " I hope you will get me an answer to this as quickly as you can." He said, " Look, here, T will agree to your terms —I will extend your leases. I cannot give you the minerals, because there is a set in the public mind against parting with the minerals ; but I will give you an extension of your leases for fifty-six years at a nominal rent for the minerals, and at the expiry of the fifty-six years T will give you a renewal for a similar term." I said, "Tf you buy the land you will have 46,000 acres and be able to put tenants all over it." He said, " How do you know about the harbour? " I said, " They have plans for the harbour at Home." They were going to build on a much larger scale. One of the gentlemen had been down to Cardiff with me, and I said, " You can make a second Cardiff of Mokau," and they took that view of mine. Sir Joseph Ward said, " I thought you had been offered £200,000? " T said. " Yes, but I was bluffed in the deal by Flower's executors." He said, "But this is only £100,000," and I said I would rather have £100,000 with the harbour. He said, " 1 am going to Invercargill. I have telegraphed to Mr. Carroll to come down on other business, but you see him and tell him the conversation you have had with me, and that I approve of it." Mr. Treadwell was with me. When Mr. Carroll came down from Gisborne I saw Mr. Carroll with Mr. Treadwell, and Mr. Carroll said, " I caught Ward before he went to Invercargill, and we agreed. He said it was a good thing, and we are going to bring it before Cabinet." He seemed satisfied, as Sir Joseph Ward was. There was a written memo, in Mr. TreadwelPs hands of the discussion, and I waited until the meeting of Cabinet. When Sir Joseph Ward came back a Cabinet meeting was called. Mr. Hine fixed up an appointment with me. We were standing at the door of the Occidental Hotel when Mr. Hine said, " There is Mr. Carroll." I did not know him at fifst, because he had a tall hat and a frock coat on —it was at the time of the King's death. We fixed up an appointment, and Mr. Treadwell, Mr. Hine, and myself went up to Mr. Carroll's office. Mr. Carroll said, "We have considered this matter in Cabinet, and Cabinet has decided not to carry it out." I said, "Why not? " and he said, "I do not know; we are not going to carry it out." I said, "Was Dr. Findlay at the Cabinet meeting?" and he said he was. I saw then that it was no good my saying anything more, and the thing dropped through. Mr. Carroll said it was voted to set up a Royal Commission to inquire into it, but that Royal Commission was never set up, and I could never get the inquiry. Dr. Findlay in London—l will produce the letter —said, "It is due to me to say that I voted for an inquiry to be held." Now, I ask the Committee to remember his refusal was point-blank on the 7th October, 1908, to have the inquiry. Mr. Treadwell says in his letter that he had several interviews with Dr. Findlay, who gave him to understand that there should be no inquiry set up. When it came before the Cabinet, and the agreement with Sir Joseph Ward and Mr. Carroll and myself was bluffed, it was then that he consented, if he did consent, to set up the Royal Commission to bluff the deal between me and the Government. Let us have him here on his oath, He knew very well that he could vote for the Royal Commission, and that was