64

[H. T. ARMSTRONG.

1.—14.

290. Will the bulk of the work be done under the wet-place conditions or not? —No; the bulk of the work will be under eight-hour conditions. 291. Mr. McLean.] How would you combine the wet-time and bank-to-bank conditions? You say the six hours would not apply to wet places : how would you overcome it? —They would change shifts at different times. 292. The men then would work six hours in the face for wet time? —As nearly as possible. 293. These requirements of yours —you remarked, 1 think, that they would be final as far as the men and your Federation are concerned, if they were granted? —1 have no right to say what would be final, because I do not know what body of men will go there and work. 1 have absolutely nothing to do with fixing the conditions or what they ask for. I put in writing what I am told. 294. Do you yourself know that any of the Inspectors there are Inspectors under the Quarries Act ?—I know it now, but I did not before. 295. You do not know who the Quarries Inspector is? —I did not know it. 296. So you really do not know whether the inspection of explosives and timber and that kind of thing is properly conducted or not ? —lt is not properly conducted, no matter who has the power. 297. Mr. Nosworthy.] What is your opinion with regard to the sanitary conditions of the tunnel at the Otira end?—l believe they could be improved in places. 1 fancy that if they had the airtight pans that they have in other places, and cuddies were driven for the purpose, it would be an improvement. 298. .Are the sanitary arrangements in the tunnel as good as the sanitary arrangements in mines? —No. 299. I understand that the sanitary arrangements are carried out by surplus water in the channel?— Yes. There is a good stream of water running out of the tunnel. 300. That ought to be satisfactory, ought it not? —I have not heard any complaints about it recently. 301. Then you are inclined to think the sanitary arrangements are satisfactory? It is not a point that the men are complaining about?—lt is onlj* a small matter that could be seen to at any time. 302. Mr. OkeyJ\ Under your system the bank-to-bank clause would place men in wet places in a worse position?— Not in a worse position. As far as the underground workers are concerned anywhere in New Zealand, they do not split straws like that. If a person is working in a wet place he may not work the full six hours at the face; but we do not demand that the six hours shall be from the time he leaves outside till lie gets outside again. There is no mention of bank to bank in a six-hour clause. 303. Your suggestion is that the Quarry Inspector has not been doing his duty?— lf it is his duty to look after the use of explosives, then certainly he is not doing his duty. Perhaps, like me, he has not read the Act, and does not know his duty. 304. Is it not impossible to have the same sanitary arrangements in a tunnel as in a mine —there is not the room ? —Yes, there is more room. The)' have got to make the room in a mine. They could make it in the tunnel just the same. We have never approached Mr. McLean on that point. 305. Hon. Mr. R. Mclienzie.] When you and others interviewed me as Minister of Mines about this tunnel, with a view to having it brought under the Mining Act, there was no legislation in New Zealand controlling tunnels at all? —No. 306. Did I express the opinion to you then that there ought to be some regulation?— Yes. 307. And did I say that I would recommend the Government to bring in legislation dealing with the question ?—Yes. 308. Do you know whether that was before or after the Quarries Act was passed?— That would be before. 309. I took the earliest opportunity in dealing with quarries of defining all tunnels as quarries, so that they would be controlled by the Quarries Act? —Yes. 310. So that really the legislation I had in view then has been placed on the statute-book? — As far as inspecting tunnels is concerned, we know what to do now; we will stir up the Inspectors and see that they do it. 311. Mr. Fraser asked you if co-operative gangs had a right to select their own mates. Is it not a common practice on co-operative works for men to leave in order to go shearing and harvesting? Some men leave every gang?— Yes. 312. That is a common practice and always has been? —Yes. 313. The men who are left in the gang have a right to put on any one they can get to take the place of a man who leaves?—lf they wanted to put anybody in I have never known it to be disputed; but sometimes men are put in whom they do not want, and they are not consulted. 314. It is necessary for the Government Engineers to have the work carried out with reasonable speed, and if the gangs fail to find men do they not apply to the Engineer to send them men ? —Yes. 315 And if the men that the Engineer sends them turn out to be unsatisfactory, they have a perfect right to vote them out?— Yes, they have always been given that right, but it is a right that you do not like to enforce. 316. When different gangs are getting the same rate for work in cuttings or embankments, one will earn on an average 10s., or 11s., or 12s. a day per man, and another 4s. or ss. ?—There is a good deal of difference in men, but there have been times—and I have interviewed you before in regard to the matter—when it has been reported that men were working under similar conditions and one gang was making considerably more than another; but this was not exactly the