1.—12 a.

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j>. J. NATHAN.

law stands we can be stopped from doing it. We are not stopped from doing it because those in authority on the local bodies are in many instances dairy-farmers themselves and are interested in the district. We have always received every possible assistance from the Health Department here, and so far as we know all the dairy companies are perfectly willing to work under regulations that will give them security of tenure. It is almost impossible for us to deal with the drainage in any way other than the manner in which the factories are dealing with it. Speaking generally, there is only a fall in one direction, and it is only in that particular direction that we can send the drainage. So far as holding the drainage on land and letting it evaporate is concerned, we had an experience of that at the dam at Makino. I do not think you would like to go within a chain of it, because the smell gets very bad when you have a big collection of the fluid from these butter-factories. I do not think that I have anything further to say. Seeing that some dairy companies are interested in casein and that we are interested in dried milk, 1 should like to see the interpretation of "waste products " altered somewhat in this way : " ' Waste products ' means the waste products of any factory dealing with milk or any of the products from milk," and so on I think these other factories should have the same protection as the butter and cheese factories. 2. You do not think that the Bill applies to them? —I think it is doubtful, and I think it should be made clear. It will cost us at least £8,000 for our dried-milk factory, and we propose to erect a dried-milk factory at Taikoroe this summer that will cost us at least £8,000; and we feel that we should get the same protection for our dried-milk factory as the butter and cheese factories. 3. Mr. Buick.] It has been stated that it would be possible to prevent the nuisance by spreading the effluent over a paddock and ploughing the paddock in. Have you any knowledge of that being tried? —At Bunnythorpe, when this trouble was on, the dried-milk factory was burnt down, and we had something like 2,500 gallons of milk, and the farmers refused to take the whey home. We advanced money to a man to buy twelve acres of land and gave him the money to buy pigs. Then we had to pay him £3 a week to take the stuff away. Then the people complained that there was a horrible smell, because it only killed the grass and would not run away. The country was of a clayey formation, and the ground simply would not absorb the stuff. Certainly, in the Manawatu district that method would not be a success. 4. The Chairman.] You mentioned the dam at Makino and its filthy state as proof that putting the effluent on the land would not work; but assuming that it was possible to spread it on an ordinary grass paddock, and the quantity was cut down as far as possible consistent with washing the factory once a day, do you think that evaporation could deal with that limited quantity ?—I do not think it is practicable. 5. Do you know of anybody who has tried it?—No, the only books I have read on the subject are American literature, and in America they are well ahead of us in dairying matters. Their method is as follows : They take a large field and lay out a section of it in a main line of pipes, and every 3 ft. they lay out section pipes, and these pipes are set half an inch apart. The fluid from the factory is run down the main drain 'and then taken down into the side drains, which are 12 in. under the ground, so that they can plough it. When they have done one paddock they go to another. It is a very expensive thing. The factories here have not got the necessary ground. I do not know of a single factory in the Manawatu that has got the land available to do as you suggest. 6. I meant that you might cart the stuff —as is done by watering-carts—and spread it on the grass, and thus save the buying of basic slag?—l think we would save half the basic slag. We tried watering the road with this water at Bunnythorpe. I think we have tried every way to get over the trouble. We spread it over the land, and that was a failure. We dammed it up in the hope that the sun would evaporate it, and that was a failure. We told the man when he was carting it away to cut holes in the tanks and spray the road as he went home. Well, they stopped us doing that. 7. Mr. Buick.] Have you tried underground pipes?—No, because we have not got the land. 8. The Chairman.] What would be the amount that you have had to pay in fines through the interesting experience you have detailed to the Committee?—l do not know. 9. How much better would you be under this Bill? —A very great deal better. 10. You would be fined every week, would you not? —No, certainly not; because the Department would say "Do so-and-so," and I should do it, and then I should be left alone. If they tell me to do a thing I will do it, but I shall not have to pay a lot of lawyers. They are an expensive luxury. 11. Supposing the Health Officer paid you a visit and with the best of intentions led you on the wrong track, as in the case of the Makino dam, that would not absolve you, I am afraid — the lawyers would get at you then? —That may be; but what hangs over our heads now and makes us such easy prey to the man who wants to get at us is the fear of an injunction all the time. If I have not got that fear I can be more independent. 12. Mr. Baldwin.] All that I understand you are afraid of is the injunction?— Yes. 13. You have no cause to quarrel with the law except in so far as the Court may restrain you, by injunction, from doing what you are unable to prevent?—We do not want to avoid paying reasonable damage if damage can be proved, but what we do object to is that the first thing a man can apply for, without going for damages, is an injunction. 14. That is your objection to what you imagine is the law. I have drafted here a section, and I would ask you to say, without absolutely committing yourself, whether you think it would meet your position. The section I suggest is this :" In any actioh relating to the pollution of water by waste products the Court shall, in lieu of granting an injunction, award damages, provided that the defendant shall prove to the satisfaction of the Court that the defendant has