93

I.—llA.

C. A. CAWKWELL.j

149. Can you give me any other instance except this one in which the men were given on account of the wet or any other reason a holiday on full pay? —These particular men? 150. The men on that work?— They had not had one before that I know of. 151. Is it the custom to pay the men by the hour on the Remuera works? —By the day. Some of the casual hands are paid by the hour. 152. Are those men paid by the hour?—l do not know. Wilkins used to put in his paysheet. 153. Does the time-sheet represent the hours worked?— Yes. Casual hands go and come. A man may work a couple of hours and get the sack. 154. I want to know whether the men are paid according to the hours they work? —If they are looked upon as permanent hands they generally get paid by the day. 155. We're these permanent hands?— They were considered by me to be such. 156. Were these permanent hands?— The permanent work was finished. This man Wilkins was a good foreman, and I believe the men are still there. 157. Are they paid by the day whether they work there or not? —1 presume the men are paid by the day. If they are casuals they are paid by the hour; that is the custom. 158. Were a good many of these men casual labourers? —1 do not know their status. I understood they were permanent till the work was finished. 159. It has been given in evidence that the bulk of these men were paid by the hour : will you deny that? —No The matter was left to Wilkins. 160. Did you discuss with Wilkins the payment of these men at all?—No, not at all. 161. If he swears you did will you say he was telling an untruth?—l think he has made a mistake. Ido not think the man is an untruthful man. 162. If Wilkins also said that you said to him, "You give them a holiday," is he telling an untruth? —Yes. Mr. Wilkins is a man I had experience of and would not tell a lie, but Wilson is a man who is absolutely malicious. 163. If Wilkins said you instructed him that the men were to be paid, is he telling an untruth? —I say his memory has failed him. 164. You do not think your memory has failed you?--No, 1 do not. I have a pretty keen recollection. He came to me and asked me about pay, and I said it was nothing to do with me. He said, " Wilkins will pay them, and if he pays them it will be an act of grace." Dickson asked if that was so on the Board. 165. Does the Remuera Road Board give authority to the foreman of works to give the men a holiday on full pay?— They confirmed the account subsequently. There has been no specific instruction in that direction, but I know- the men are allowed to use their own discretion. 166. Can you tell me of an instance in which it has been done except this one? —Y r es; I have known, speaking generally, of holidays on which the men have been paid. 167. Have you known of an instance in which the foreman at Remuera gave the men a holiday on full pay? —They have been paid for holidays. I know the permanent staff have been paid. 168. Do you know of an instance in which the foreman of works gave the men a holiday on full pay in respect of any work at Remuera? —I cannot give you an instance, but I know it has been done. I would have to hunt up the records. 169. Will you hunt up the records and give us an instance when you go back?— Yes. 170. This was a political address you gave to the men?— Yes. 171. You went back to see Mr. Wilson that same morning, did you not?— No. 172. If he says you did see him he is telling an untruth?—Yes. I was at loggerheads with him for a long time. 173. If he swears that you came back and discussed the matter and told him you had given the men a holiday, that is untrue? —Yes. 174. Then Wilson would be telling a lie? —Yes, that is so. 175. And he has sworn on oath that you did come back?— That is all I say say —to deny it. 176. At the time that you addressed these men three days before the second ballot, had you any answer from the Advances Board with regard to the loan?—I would have to refer to the file. 177. Had you a few days before you addressed these men any answer from the Advances Board with regard to the loan? —We had that assurance sent to Sir John Findlay. It was made known to us. 178. What was the assurance Sir John Findlay made known to you?— That the matter would be expedited and an advance made. 179. Do you think that would have any effect upon any of the men?—ln that particular electorate? 180. Yes, or any electorate—any of the men that were there?—l do not know whether the men were of the reply. This thing was all done between ourselves. We asked him to shake them up, and we got a reply back, and we went on with the work. Ido not think it, was mooted that Sir John Findlay had done this or that. 181. You said "it was made known to us": who are the "us"?—lt was made known to the Clerk of the Board and to us. 182. Any one else? —I do not know. 183. Did you afterwards inform the men?—No, I did not. 184. Did you not let some one else inform the men?— No. These things, of course, get about. The Clerk may have told some one. 185. I want to know whether you think the men were informed? —I do not know of it, honestly. 186. It is rather innocent, is it not?—l will swear this, that I did not inform the men. It was treated as a business transaction. 1 lead a strenuous life, and I have a lot of other things to look after, and I did not take any notice of it.