W. E. GAHAGAN.]

55

I.—ll a.

16. And there is no overcrowding?— None whatever. 17. Mr. Hanan.] Will you state what the saving in interest has been by your getting the loan from the State-guaranteed Advances Department as compared with outside people?— From what I understand, Ido not think w r e could have got the loan outside at under 54, per cent. That is practically a saving of 2 per cent. 18. Then the development which has been of so much advantage in securing health and cheaper living to the workers which has been referred to could not have been secured? —We could not have done it without a loan; it would have been impossible. Sir Joseph Ward asked if it was an advantage in regard to the sanitary arrangements, and I desire to say that it was. The land is rather flat there, and in talking to Mr. Freeman, the surveyor who was doing the work, he said that we could not have got the water away on account of the place being so flat, but when we got the concrete channels we had better conditions. 19. What is your position?—l am Mayor of the borough. 20. If the lending of money by the State Department to local bodies like yours is discontinued, what, in your opinion, will be the effect? —Well, I might say that there is a small portion of our borough which is out of the loan area, and we are very anxious indeed that the Government will be able to help us still further. In fact, I believe there is a petition coming to the Council to put this small portion in and to get a further loan, and if that cannot be done it will be very serious for that portion of the district. 21. Do you think that boroughs ought to obtain loans?— Certainly I do. 22. Why?— Because it is a big advantage to the whole district, especially in the way it is granted. In the course of thirty-six years and a half we will have our loan paid off. 23. But applying to other boroughs—the principle?—l certainly do, if they were in the position we were in of not being able to raise the money otherwise. They must have it. I know they are trying to form a new borough in Lower Riccarton, and I feel certain that unless they are able to get a loan they will not go ahead as we have done. I feel certain of that. 24. Hon. Mr. Allen.] With regard to loans to boroughs, if there is only a certain amount of money, do you think it is wise of the Government to iend it out in large sums to well-to-do boroughs?—l hardly know how to answer that, Mr. Allen. I certainly think it is the right thing for any Government to encourage these boroughs. Of course, if they can raise the money locally well and good, but I say that even if the Government is not going to make much money out of it, it is their duty to help these boroughs. I am a public man. In fact, our Council thinks we ought to try and help the working-class in our borough and try to raise money to help them to build houses. 25. I am referring to the large boroughs that have considerable capital and are able to borrow either inside or outside New Zealand. If there is only a limited amount of money, do you not think it would be wise for the Government to keep it for the boroughs that are more needy?— Yes, I feel that way. 26. Mr. E. Newman.] What was the amount of your loan?—£20,000. 27. And what did you spend the money on?—Regrading, widening roads, asphalt footpaths, and concrete channels. 28. Were there any sewerage-works?—No, not purely sewerage-works, but all surface-water drainage. I believe that, in connection with the Bowden Estate alone, the drainage of that property alone has increased its value by fully 20 per cent. 29. If there was a limited amount of money available, would you consider it better policy to spend the money in levelling and widening roads in proximity to a city or in giving access to the backblocks? —I think they ought to divide it up. Ido not think they ought to block one for the sake of another. I believe in helping those who are not able to help themselves in the backblocks, but I do not think the suburbs should be neglected. 30. What did you pay for this money?— 34 per cent, and a sinking fund. 31. Does that include the sinking fund? —Oh, no, it is over and above that. 32. Bight Hon. Sir J. G. Ward.] Was there any political influence of any kind sought to be used by your Road Board or borough to obtain this loan from the State-guaranteed Advances Department ?—No. 33. Was application made direct to the Department?— Yes. 34. Mr. E. Newman.] What date did you apply for the loan? —June, 1909, I think. 35. And when did you hear the loan was granted? —I could not say. We are at present represented by three different members —Mr. Laurenson a small portion, Mr. Ell a larger portion, and the Hon. Mr. Rhodes another portion. 36. The Chairman.] You went direct to the head of the Government in Christchurch in connection with your loan ?—Yes, in Christchurch, when we failed to get it anywhere else. :«rrr,'! iv -TV" James Kemmis Warburton sworn and examined. (No. 9.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your occupation?—l have retired from the position of AuditorGeneral. 2. Bight Hon. Sir J. G. Ward.] Mr. Warburton, how long have you been a member of the State-guaranteed Advances Board that deals with advances under the Local Authorities Branch? —About two years and seven months. 3. You were for a number of years Superintendent of the State Advances to Settlers Department? —Superintendent of the Department under the Advances to Settlers Act. 4. You had a long experience in connection with the advancing of moneys in the Advances to Settlers Department as Superintendent and as a member of the Board before you took up the position of a member of the State-guaranteed Advances Board for Local Authorities Branch ? —Yes.