I.—9a.

E. J. CAREY.

3

" substantially." As interpreted by the President of the Court, " substantially employed " would mean employed during the major portion of the time at some particular work. 6. " Mainly " would be just as effective, would it not ?—I am always content to take Mr. Justice Sim's word. 7. As a matter of fact, you are prepared to accept the Bill practically as printed ?—Yes. is one other word. The personal pronoun " his "is used. 8. That covers both ? —Very well. 9. Mr. Glover.] How would this Bill affect thellarge hotels—say, the Grand Hotel and the Star Hotel in Auckland —conducting their business on|Sunday ? What arrangements could they make reasonably to meet the requirements of the travelling community ?—I think the employers themselves will admit that the workers' unions have tried to meet them in every way. We have never yet said that we insist on the day being Sunday. All that we ask is that on one day of the week'—that day to be at the employer's dictation—each one of the staff shall have a day off in rotation. 10. But what would you do in the case of the chef ? —At present when the chef gets off for the half-day he is relieved by the second cook. We have never yet asked that the man doing the work of the superior man on the day of his half-holiday shall be paid anything extra for it. We have always said that he shall do it as part of his ordinary work and at his ordinary wages. 11. How would it affect the hotel as far as the night porter was concerned ?—At present they get one day a fortnight off, and this will give them one day a week. We can quite understand that any section of employers will object when some special legislation comes along affecting their vested interest —they will object on business grounds. But I should like to see the trade come to a realization of the fact that the country deems it only a fair thing that men and women working in hotels shall have the right to say that on one day in the week they shall not be required to go to work. I feel keenly on the point because I worked for eighteen months in one of the leading hotels in the town, and during the whole of that time I never missed a day, except on one occasion when I got four days' holiday; every other day I went to work at 6 o'clock in the morning. Another thing that makes the holiday all the more necessary is this : Our day is not an eight-hour day started and finished in the eight hours. It runs over eleven to fifteen hours, a fair average being thirteen hours. The men start -work at from 6toß in the morning, and finish at from Bto 12. They get off a little in the morning and a little in the afternoon. They have a long day to put in, and the time they are off is of no use to them to do anything that any ordinary man does after his day's work. 12. You think, then, that arrangements could be come to amicably between employers and employees without causing the general public or the employers much inconvenience ?—We ask our employers to get the sixty-two hours work out of us in six days instead of six and a half, and I think that by a little adjustment, and management, and rearrangement it can be done with a minimum of inconvenience to them. 13. You will remember that there was evidence given on this matter, with regard to the accumulation of holidays —thirteen days, I think, in every three months ?—Yes. 14. Provided that every chef in Wellington were to take those particular thirteen days at the same time, how would that work out for the employers ? —lt is almost an impossible supposition ; they could not get off thirteen days at the same time. But if it happened in Auckland, say, that by bad management on the part of the hotelkeepers all their chefs were off at one time, the chefs could have a good picnic together, and the second cooks would do the work. The second cook does it now when the chef is off. As a matter of fact, when we get a holiday we get it at our own expense. I know that the chef at the Grand Hotel, Auckland, was away for a time, and during the whole of that time the second cook did the work. 15. Providing they did not all want to go off on the one day, would it not be possible for the Empire chef to go over to the Grand Hotel for these thirteen days, and so on ?—lt would be possible, but it would be unnecessary. Mr. Beveridge will tell you that he would sooner have his second cook there than a strange chef. 16. The Chairman.] Would it not be necessary to increase the staff in most of the large hotels ? —It will be, I candidly admit. It may be necessary to increase the staff to make up for the men that are off, but it will not be necessary to increase it by any skilled hands. Probably another couple of general hands to do the general cleaning-work will be necessary. I believe that I could manage one of the leading hotels here, like Mr. Beveridge's, employing forty-two or forty-three -men, and give the seventh day off, by a little rearrangement and the addition of another two men at a cost of £3 a week to the hotel. 17. Mr. Clark]. Supposing that a man who has leased a hotel and is paying a fair rent under the existing conditions has to employ 14 per cent, more hands : it is rather rough on him, is it not, if he is sailing pretty close to the wind now ?—lf a hdtelkeeper has gone into a proposition in which he has to sail close to the wind, he has gone into it with his eyes open, because we have been asking for this piece of legislation for the past six years. In 1911 it was recommended to the favourable consideration of the Government. In 1909 it was before the Committee. Almost every candidate for Parliament agreed that it was a fair thing. If hotelkeepers buy into a proposition where the labourconditions are so bad that any Government is ready to remedy them, that is the hotelkeepers' funeral. But the 14 percent, proposition would not come along. The hotelkeepers know quite well that we have been asking for this : we have been to them several times, and have asked them to give it. It has been granted in Sydney and everywhere else, and we believe that we are entitled to it here. 18. Mr. Veitch.] Would not the hotelkeeper be in the same position if the price of beef or beer went up ? —Exactly the same. 19. Mr. Glover.] Do you not think that something might be arranged for the owner of that hotel to make a reduction in his rent ? —I know that the wholesale people are prepared to support our pro-