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36. When did you start milking on the 70 acres?—ln September, 1905. _ 37. I think you have received a reference from the manager of the Ararata Dairy Factory?— Yes. [Produced and put in, Exhibit H.] 38 What was the condition of the 70 acres when you started to work on it I—lt was all oustt. 39: Who cleared it?—l did, with the assistance of some Maoris who were employed by me,. 40. How did you get the money to pay the wages?— From the produce from my twenty-four cows and from the oats and turnips. 41. When you started milking, how did you manage to buy the cows? —It took all my money to improve the land, and I then went to an auctioneer and asked to be supplied with stock for the land I had improved, and he agreed, on my paying him 10 per cent. 42. Do you owe anything now, or is that paid off?—lt is all paid off. 43. Are there many Maoris in your locality milking cows? —Yes. 44. I think you said you started in 1905 milking on the 70 acres?— Yes. 45. You do not run your cows only on the 70 acres? —No, I have land belonging to my relations, which I had improved. I found that the 70 acres was not sufficient. 46. D® you say that this land you got from your relations you had already improved?—No, it was only in 1906 I started to improve their land. '- 47. Did you pay your relations anything for being allowed to use their land?—No, I did not. It cost me so much to improve the land. They had about 30 or 40 acres improved. 48. And how nany acre? do you think you ran your cows on? —The block contained 102 acres, more or less. 49. Before you started milking did you have anything to do with cattle at all? —Yes. When I first went to the auctioneer I got some cattle and I was cattle-dealing. I was buying and selling until I started milking. 50. Did the sale of your cattle show a profit?—No, it was because it was not profitable that I turned my hand to milking. 51. And was milking profitable? —Yes. - Mr. Welsh: No questions. Tonga Awikau sworn and examined. (No. 45.) 1. Mr. Bell.] You live at Ketemarae? —Yes. 2. And you are interested, I think, in 600 acres in the Kaukuku Block?— Yes. 3. That is held under several occupation licenses, I think?— Yes. 4. There are about twenty people?— Not so many, perhaps. 5. I think some of those 600 acres have been leased to the pakeha?-—Yes, about 540. The first leases were for terms of five and seven years. 6. How many pakehas have got those leases?—A number. 7. In what condition was this land when you leased it to the pakeha? —It was in very bad condition indeed. It was the first part of the Kaukuku Block that was left for the Natives. 8. Was there any bush on it? —Yes, that was the condition of it. 9. Do you know whether this land had been offered for lease by the Public Trustee? — Yes, in 1885 Mr. Rennell told us that it was being put up to auction at 6s. 6d. an acre, but owing to the excessive price put on it no Europeans took it up. 10. Why did you lease this land to the pakeha?—Because we had no money, and we leased it so that they could improve it. 11. Were you charging any rent?— No. 12. Som; of those leases have come to an end? —Yes. 13. And where the leases have fallen in the land has been leased again to the pakeha?—Yes, but at a rental of £1, £1 55., and up to £1 10s. per acre —much more than the Public Trustee is getting for the land. That is under the Acts of 1881 and 1892. 14. Why did you not work the lands yourself?—We had no avenue of getting any money at all. 15. What was the money for when the land was improved? —We still could not get any money —we could not pledge cur bodies. 16. I think you are also interested in the Umutahi Block?— Yes, I have 8 acres there. 17. I think your nephews are living on that? —Yes. 18. Do you think the owners of the 600 acres would have worked it if they could have got the money?—-Yes. 19. Did you ever try to get the money to work it? —Yes. We applied to Mr. Fisher to advance to us or to show us how to get an advance. The person who made the application for us was Moropoka, but he was not successful. Mr. Welsh: No questions. Tinirau Aejki sworn and examined. (No. 46.) 1. Mr. Bell.] You live at Ararata?—Yes. 2. You are interested in 102 acres of Grant No. 3954, Ngatihawe Block?— Yes. 3. And there are now five owners ?—Yes. 4. It is held under occupation license?— Yes. 5. When did you take it up?— Between 1893 and 1894. ... 6. In what condition was the land then? —All bush. There are six owners—three men ■•and three women. . 7. What did you do with the land when you went on to it in 1893 or 1894 1— Felled the bust, myself and Tekuku.