E.—l2.

140

[B. BUTLBB.

30. Are you in favour of no person being engaged as a pupil-teacher until he or she has matriculated '! —l am greatly in favour oi tiiat. ~. 31. What do you think should be the limit of a secondary school as regards attendance? — 1 see no occasion for any limit if the schools can be properly staffed. It is as easy to work a school of one thousand, if it is properly staffed, as a school of two hundred and fifty. 32. But .could the head teaciier exercise the same influence in a large school as in a small one.' —One would have departments, and one's influence would be exercised through one's organization. 33. But could there be the same personal influence?—l think you could find time to do a great deaf. One advantage would be that for a bigger school one could have a better staff. 34. The Chairman.] You think there would be no subtraction of the personal infiuence of the head teacher so long as the staffing was sufficient to meet the requirements of the enlarged school?— 1 do think so. 35. Would you be in favour of a Dominion scaie of salaries for secondary schools? —I think so. 36. Mr. Pirani.] With regard to Scripture teaching : is there anything now to prevent you taking the Bible as an ordinary- reading-book in your school during school hours?—l do not think there is. But do you think that that would be putting the Bible in quite the proper position? Personally I would hardly like to bring it into that position. 37. With regard to the tests for pupils entering the school: would j.t not be much better if, instead of waiting for a period of probation in your school, the test were applied before the pupils went to your school at all—in the school in which the teachers are already familiar with their capabilities?— Yes, but there will be doubtful cases even after that weeding-out has been done. There will be cases of children who give a certain amount of promise and seem to be worthy of secondary education and y-et who will fail in the first or second year. 38. Do you not think there ought to be more weeding-out than at present before they come to you 2 —Yes. 39. If there were one controlling authority for primary, secondary, and technical schools, would it not be a better system for the Inspectors and headmasters to define what the secondary course of each pupil should be —whether it should be in a technical school or a secondary school? — Provided that the controlling body took into consideration the opinions of the teachers. 40. With regard to matriculation, do you not think that a system of leaving-certificates given by the principals of the secondary schools to the pupils they consider sufficiently- qualified to go to the University would be better than the present entrance examination? —Yes; but, again, there would be the difficulty of the individual standard. 41. With regard to the question of co-education : do you think there is any real difficulty before the age of twelve, either educationally or otherwise, in co-education ?—I do not think that at Home there would be a difficulty, but I think here there would be, because you have to take into account the fact that a girl here matures very much faster than at Home and is much older for her age. A child of thirteen at Home is no older in many respects than a child of ten here. 42. But has a girl of twelve begun to have the physical strain that differentiates her from a boy?—l think so in many cases. We have found that so. 43. From the age of ten to the age of sixteen you think that difficulty would occur?— Yes, I think she should be in the hands of a woman then. 44. Do you see much objection to have it together from sixteen to nineteen years of age? — None at all, provided the girls have been well brought up. 45. The Chairman.] I have assumed, rightly or wrongly, that your answer to the question about the inspectorate implied the need for women Inspectors in secondary schools and in the primary schools if the division you contemplate were carried out? —Yes. When I said there is a need for women Inspectors, again I think that the individual qualifications necessary should be only ability. I do not think, for example, we should split the work and say that women should take these subjects and the men those. 46. And in reference to these suggested boarding establishments, would it not be an advantage, if they proved to be necessary, that they should be under the direct control of the Board, and really be a hostel within the school-grounds? —That is to be preferred. 47. Coming so recently from England, I suppose you know something about the practical work of the kindergarten in the primary schools in Liverpool ? —Yes 48. Would you, as one familiar-with the benefits of the kindergarten, suggest its engrafting on the public school system of this Dominion? —Certainly. James William Tibbs examined on oath. (No. 17.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your qualifications? —I am a M.A. of Oxford, and lam headmaster of the Auckland Grammar School. 2. You have been headmaster for how many years I—Nineteen1 —Nineteen years. 3. Will you please state what you have to say in regard to the subject-matter of this Commission ? From what I have heard during the last few days I am more than ever impressed with the importance of a sound primary education as a foundation. I think Education Boards should be relieved of the responsibility of managing secondary schools and technical instruction. The Boards are at present elected from School Committees. They should be strengthened by the addition of expert members. I would suggest that other members should be added to Education Boards from superannuated teachers and Inspectors, and that they should be elected by the local Educational Institute. We shall have in the country presently a great body of matured experts in educational matters, and I think the country should make some use of them. With regard to secondary education, I would mention the Auckland Grammar School Board as a very good model for Boards. It consists of ten members—the Mayor, three members elected by members of Parliament for the Auckland District, three by the University of New Zealand, and three by the Auckland Education Board. In this way both university and primary education are