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H. i. DEL M. MAHON.

they take some part in the teaching. They give model lessons, under the supervision of the headmaster. They have to study the science of education, and at the end of two years to pass an examination, both practical and theoretical, before they are definitely accredited as teachers in secondary schools. I think some such method ought to be introduced in New Zealand. 25. Do you think it would be sufficient to make it a condition precedent that the teachers should have a certificate, or qualify through a training college?— That would be an improvement. 26. Would it be sufficient? —Provided the academic qualifications were satisfactory. 27. Is that as far as you would go? —Personally, I think it would be very much better if we had a system somewhat similar to that of the two years' jirobation that obtains in Germany. I admit that it would be difficult here, because teachers of twenty-two or twenty-three years of age would not like to be put under probation for two years unless higher inducements were held out. 28. When you spoke of the Prussian system, especially with regard to the cost, from what authority were you quoting? —From an article in the School World. 29. In view of the fact that some pupils whom the headmasters do not consider fit for free places nevertheless sit for and pass the examinations for Junior Scholarships, is there any danger of such pupils, being prejudiced under an accrediting system?—ln the case of a properly introduced accrediting system the examinations should be abolished. At present we have the accrediting system to some extent. At our school numbers of pupils are accredited for senior free places. Those who are not accredited may go up for examination, and they generally pass. 30. Assuming that there were no examination, and that the accrediting system alone were in vogue, is there any danger of really bright pupils being prejudiced?—l do not think so. If the classes were of reasonable size there would be absolutely no danger of that. 31. Mr. Poland.] How do the scholarship and free-place holders of to-day compare with the boys who attended the Grammar School, say, ten or fifteen years ago? —I do not think their attainments in general subjects are very much higher. I think that is the general opinion of our staff. In fact, some of them think that in recent years there has been a falling-off in the qualifications. Mr. Heaton is under the impression that the classes in the primary schools are too large for individual attention. There are too many subjects, and insufficient stress is laid upon the essentials of education. 32. Is it your experience that the essentials of education, as taught in the primary schools, are equal to what they have been in the past?— The general impression of our staff is that there has been a falling-off in recent years. 33. The Chairman.] Would you be prepared to indorse Mr. Heaton's estimate?— Yes. 34. Mr. Poland.] As the teacher of English, what have you to say as to the equipment of the scholars who come from the primary schools? —The great fault I find with them is that they cannot state a simple thing in a simple way. There is too much straining after effect in the composition. In their first two terms I have a difficult task in making the boys express themselves simply. That is the case with the best of the boys, and it is more pronounced in the lower classes. 35. Do you think that doing away with the teaching of formal grammar in the primary schools is in any- way responsible for the falling-off in the quality of the English?—l do not think very much formal grammar should be taught in the primary schools. The only formal grammar that should be taught is what is essential to the writing of correct English. In the old days too much formal grammar was taught. I think English grammar can be best illustrated from an inflected language like Latin. 36. Is there any difficulty in obtaining qualified teachers for the Auckland Grammar School at the present time under the salaries and conditions offered ?—There are not as many applications as there used to be, and, as I have already pointed out, a very large number of those who enter the service leave it after a few years for other careers. 37. You think much better work could be done if the staff were strengthened and the general outlook were improved ?—Certainly. 38. The Chairman.] And if the pupils came to you from the primary schools better grounded than they are now? —That is the general opinion of the staff —that the essentials are not taught as well as they used to be. The science master, for example, says that in his department the onlypreliminaries required are arithmetic and composition, and he complains bitterly of the weakness of the scholars in arithmetic. 39. And you personally find fault with the weakness of their composition?— Yes. 40. Mr. Davidson.] You say you think considerable waste of money takes place in admitting children into our secondary schools who will remain for only one year?— Yes. I think there ought to be an undertaking on the part of the parents that their children shall remain for at least two years. 41. There would be a considerable saving to the State if those who would not remain for at least two years were excluded? —Yes. 42. Do you think an average of twenty-five pupils in a class too many for a single teacher?— No. I think that is about what it should be. In the lower forms one could teach advantageously something over thirty, and not more than thirty in the middle forms; but in the matriculation classes we certainly- should not have more than twenty-five, nor in the highest class more than fifteen to twenty. 43. Does not the State really provide for an average of thirty-—£375 per class?— That is for the lower classes. 44. I notice in the departmental report that the average per class in 1910 was 209 for the whole of New Zealand. If that is so, what means would you suggest for reducing the number in the large classes?-—What is necessary- is to increase the grant sufficiently to pay decent salaries to the teachers, and to have classes of reasonable size. Otherwise you cannot have efficient education ..with big classes. I think I, made it clear that we cannot hope to have secondary education such as obtains in Germany on £12 10s. a head. The £12 10s. is spent not merely on the staff, but also in the maintenance of buildings and making provision for extra buildings.