E. SIMPSON.]

85

8.—12.

43. And you also know the Legislature actually protects women, inasmuch as it says that there must be a certain number —that at least one of the first three assistants shall be a woman?—l do not think that is meant to protect the interests of the women; I think it is to protect the interests of the Boards. 44. There is absolutely nothing to protect women holding any position?— Nothing except the practice of the local Boards. 45. Are women prepared to have the whole thing thrown open to competition, and allow the question of efficiency and the welfare of the school to be the determining factor ?—We have been satisfied with that so long, and you see the result. You see the case I quoted a little while ago, where a woman, according to the Board's own reading, was more competent than the man, and yet she did not get it. We feel now that there must be some security. 46. I do not know whether you remember the case of a woman in charge of a school in town who took charge when the school was quite small, and remained in charge while it grew, until there were between two and three hundred in attendance, and then the residents petitioned for a male teacher? —Yes, but do the people always understand this thing? 47. Do you know that the discipline was so bad that the residents petitioned for a male teacher ?—I cannot understand that, because I taught as a pupil-teacher with that lady, and she was an extremely competent woman, and quite capable of managing her school whilst I was there. 48. You referred to the question of the Boards being composed of men. You do not mean to insinuate that a Board composed of men will not give justice to a woman ?—I do not mean to insinuate anything. I only mean to state the plain fact that they have not done so. 49. But have they not to consider the question of the efficiency and welfare of the school, apart from sex altogether?— They may think they are doing so, but I think the question of efficiency has not been consiTlered by them, or they would give women better positions. 50. You referred to America, and the positions women hold there, but do you also consider that in some of the American States as much as 90 per cent, of the teaching profession consists of women, and there is no choice of men for these positions? —Well, the American system of education is supposed to be a very good one. 51. Except that it does not offer any inducements to men? —Well, the schools seem to be run very well by the women; the education there seems to be pretty efficient. 52. But the salaries offered are so low that men will not enter the teaching profession there? — It does not seem to have lowered to such a terrible degree the efficiency of the schools there. Of course I think there should be both. 53. I suppose you would admit that more men go into the teaching profession to make a life work of it than women ?—Yes. 54. Do you not think that should be taken into consideration ? —I do not think that has any real bearing on the question—that because some women leave the profession those who choose to remain in it are penalized. A fairly large number of men give up teaching for other work, and yet we never hear the question raised of penalizing those who remain in the profession to the slightest degree, and if these women do marry and go out of the service the State is really not losing them, because each one sets up a little home school, and that is best of all. 55. You mean when a trained woman teacher marries, her work is still going on for the benefit of the whole State? —Yes. 56. You mention the question of sewing and drill : have you also considered the fact that outside the teaching of drill, which may fairly be set against the teaching of sewing as special subjects for men and women, there comes in the question of outside parades, and the claims the cadet work makes on men outside the ordinary school-work that is required of women? —I have thought of that, and made a calculation about it. If lam wrong you will correct me. I have calculated that these men cannot actually take, outside school hours, more than twenty-four hours' extra work in the year when the women are at home. If you calculate a man at £250 a year his time is worth 4s. an hour, and even if you double that it will be Bs. an hour. Well, a bonus of £10 per year for extra cadet work will amply cover all the work he does. 57. You are assuming that it does not take more than twenty-four hours, and you are perhaps losing sight of the fact that he has to give up holidays?— These holidays are often special holidays. I think they had a parade for General Godley, and that was not one of the usual holidays. I think the women are perfectly willing to-'give up these holidays as well, and take the girls for first-aid work on them. The women do not ask for these holidays. 58. Do you not think that the one question is the efficiency of the school, and that it does not matter whether the teacher is really a man or woman?— That is the question, and we contend the efficiency is being interfered with by the absence of women from these high positions. 59. You would be quite content to see all positions thrown open to applicants so long as you are sure all would be fairly treated?—-Yes. 60. Mr Pirani? In regard to Education Boards, are you aware there have been Education Boards in the Dominion with women on them?—T was not aware of it 61. There was one in Taranaki and one at Hawke's Bay, and I believe there was one in Canterbury at one time. Do you know if the condition of women in Taranaki and Hawke's Bay is any better than in Auckland? —One woman on a Board would not be likely to have much influence. 62. It depends on the woman. I believe you know that one man often runs the whole Board? —When it came to a vote one woman would only have one vote on the subject, and she would not be able to do much. I think there have not been enough women on the Boards to counterbalance the prejudice of the men. 63. Do you know if any woman has stood for the Education Board in the Auckland District, and has been rejected? —No; but I could quite imagine they would be rejected.