B. SIMPSON.]

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there —I have a paper from one of them—for equal pay for equal work, and that women should be eligible for all positions in the service as well as men in our mixed schools, unless you separate the boys from the girls. 6. It is not a question of separating the classes in schools; it is simply a question of classifying the male and female teachers so far as salaries are concerned. I will take such a school as Mr. McKenzie represents. The first female assistant in such a school in Victoria receives a much larger salary than the first female assistant in that school in New Zealand. She occupies in Mr. McKenzie's school, I take it, the position of third assistant? —Yes. 7. Well, instead of being third assistant, if you had separate classification she would be styled first female assistant, and her salary would be very much better. Under such a system would you not then be able to state your case more readily, and let the public see the position more easily?—lt. is a subject I have given no thought to; I will have to think it over. 8. If you were in a school of over 600 in average attendance, would you prefer to be called first female assistant or third assistant? —I would not care very much what I was called, so long as I received a salary proportionate to the position and proportionate to the work I was called upon to perform. 9. If there was a separate classification, and you were first female assistant, and received a salary at least equal to the second man, you would be satisfied ? —That is all we ask for at present —simply that we should receive a salary equal to the second man. Of course, what we might do in the future, or what we wish in the future, is another matter. 10. If the scale of salaries in New Zealand were altered in such a way as to give the first female assistant a salary equal to that received by the second male, would you be satisfied ? —Yes, for the present. That is all we are asking. 11. You said something about the question of superannuation. I suppose you know that women may retire after thirty years' service? —Yes. 12. And are you aware that women have retired already at the age of forty-two?—l did not know of any case at the age of forty-two. I have heard of several at the age of forty-five. 13. Would you be surprised to know that at least one lady has retired on half her salary at the age of forty-two? —That will be a very exceptional case, I think. 14. That is exceptional, but it is not at all an unusual thing to have begun teaching at the age of fifteen or sixteen as pupil-teachers, and all these women may retire at the age of forty-five or forty-six. Do you not see, then, that women are placed in a very advantageous position in regard to superannuation as compared with men?— Yes, they are; but, of course, if a woman retired after thirty years' service she retires on thirty sixtieths of her salary, and when a man goes on he retires on forty sixtieths. Again, the women have had very small salaries, and the pensions are relatively very small. Of course, it may be half her salary, but her salary was very small to begin with. 15. We will suppose that a woman has reached the highest salary that can be reached in Otago, taking the district that you have specified as excluding women from the position of second assistant —women in Otago may receive a salary of £210 per annum, and taking a particular case I have in my mind at the present time, we will suppose she started at fifteen years of age. By the time she is fifty she will have served for thirty-five years, and she will then retire on thirty-five sixtieths of £210, which is a very fair annuity indeed. No man can retire until at least ten years later. Is that not so? —Five years later. The minimum retiring age is sixty, or after forty years' service. 16. So that a woman may receive an annuity ten years before a man, and, of course, a man has a much shorter period in which to enjoy his annuity? —Yes. The women certainly have an advantage in the superannuation, but I think if we were placed on exactly the same footing in regard to salaries we would not mind being placed on the same footing in regard to superannuation. 17. Do you think it is a question of what the women prefer, or is it a question of what is best in the interests of the children ?—You think women are incapacitated sooner than men ? 18. Do you not know that educational authorities consider that when a woman has reached the age of fifty-five, and probably has taught for forty years, it would be in the interests of education that she should retire? —J, think it depends altogether on the woman. The Chief Superintendent of Schools of Chicago is a woman, and she was appointed to that position when over the age of sixty years, at a salary of $10,000 a year. 19. That is an exceptional case? —It is exceptional. 20. Coming back to this question of assistants, what women really ask for is not that the position of second assistant in a school should be closed against women, but simply that the first woman on the staff should receive a salary equal to the second man ?—That is what they have asked for. They have no desire to curtail the salaries of the men in the slightest. All they want is to secure fair and reasonable salaries for themselves. 21. Then you refer to the exclusion of women from schools of Grade 4: can you give a specific case? —I can only quote the figures. In schools of Grade 4in Auckland only seven women have been appointed, and I could not find one in Otago, so I say they are practically excluded. 22. Do you know of any women in Otago who had been teaching for, say, twenty-five years in a third-grade school, and who, because that school increased to over thirty-six in average attendance, was practically dismissed from the service? —I knew of that case; it was mentioned at the Timaru Conference. 23. Do you know her classification? —She was a degree woman, I believe. 24. I understand that what you desire is that in schools of Grade 4 the head-teachership should be open to all competent women?—l think so.