E.—l2.

80

N. R. MCKENZIE.

65. You do not know much about the recent history of appeals, or the cost of appeals?—Oh, yes, I do. 66. The question I want you to answer is this : If the Inspectors and the Board consider that that teacher should be transferred to a lower grade of school, would you give that teacher the right of appeal to the Appeal Court? —Not against the Inspector. At least, I, as a member of the Institute, would not be any party- to the man appealing if the Inspector thought he was unfit for the position. 67. That is in the case of a transfer?— Either of a dismissal or a transfer. We invariably carry out that practice in Auckland. If a man cannot show that the Inspector's report upon his work is sufficiently good, we do not back his appeal. 68. With regard to the supply of stationery for the schools, do you make any levy upon the pupils? —No. The stationery is paid for out of the Board's grant. 69. Do you think that section (i) of clause 55 of the Education Act, where it prevents an assistant in a school being appointed headmaster of the same school, is a proper provision?—He is not prevented from being appointed, he is prevented from being transferred. As I understand the Act, if the position is advertised he has a perfect right to apply for it and to get it. 70. Then, how would he come out under a Dominion promotion list? Would his classification as an assistant put him ahead of the classification of headmaster in another school of somewhat smaller size? —In Auckland head teachers are classified on separate lists. The name of a man who has classified fairly well as head teacher of a country school may have no classification as an assistant. He may be on one list, but not on the other. 71. But some are on both? —Some on both and some on one only. 72. Are any of the assistants classified on the head teacher's list who are not head teachers at present?— Yes. 73. Do you think it desirable that there should be any limitation of the choice in the appointment of a head teacher ?—I think any assistant who is qualified ought to be eligible for appointment to any school. In the public interest, the best man available should be appointed. 74. You state that the recent regulations have provided against the reduction of a teacher's salary except in the case of inefficiency: is that so in regard to all teachers? —Within certain limits. For instance, in the case of falling attendance a man's salary cannot be reduced for—l think it is three years. 75. You do not know- that that does not apply to all teachers in the one school? —No, I thought it was a general rule. 76. You would be surprised to know that a teacher might lose his position altogether in a school, and be thrown out without anything to do?— That is so, but it is very unusual. 77. Do you not think that, if owing to a reduction in attendance a school goes down in grade, some provision ought to be made for the teacher? —It seems only just. The question is whether the public can afford to pay for teachers who have nothing to do. As a teacher, I would like to see the public pay a pension to any one who lost his position in that way, but as a citizen I do not see how the thing could be done except by transferring that teacher to another school. 78. In regard to decrease of the classification list, or sectional classification list, you said there ought to be some right of appeal. Is there any right of appeal under your system?— Not that I would call an appeal. The person has a right to come to the Board. Ido not know how the Board deals with the matter, but there is nothing in our scheme to say that any man has a right to be retried, as it were. 79. Is not the appeal to the Board the same as in Victoria? You appeal to the controlling Board there? —No. In Victoria a meeting of the Committee of Classification is called, and the man's record is fully gone into, and the thing begun de novo. I have never known a case where it was done here until the end of the period of two years. 80. With regard to your idea of having four education districts in New Zealand, do you not know that it would be utterly impossible to work Southern Westland in with Taranaki in one education district?—l would not attempt to put it in with Taranaki. 81. But it is with Taranaki in the Middle University district?— Then I am wrong in my idea of the boundaries of that district. 82. Do you think it is possible to get the work of the primary, technical, and secondary schools done by an unpaid Board for- each of the four districts? —It is a thing I have not thought about. It would certainly- involve a great loss of time to the members of the Board, and they ought to have some recompense. 83. Do you not think that if that happened your idea of a big saving by the abolition of the small clerical staff would amount to nothing?— They would not need to get princely revenues. 84. Neither do the staffs of the small education districts? —The Board must have its Secretary and its office, and I suppose its truant officers. One truant officer does for the whole of Auckland, and one Secretary for the whole of Auckland. A cadet in the office added to the staff of an office like this would be sufficient to do the extra work imposed by the inclusion of the small district. 85. You must remember that in some cases the Inspector and Secretary is one man ?—Yes, but only in a few cases. 86. Do you think the Inspectors now are so underworked that they would be unable to do the additional work of the smaller district without increase of staff?—Thev would simply absorb some of the present Inspectors. One man could do more than inspect the Grey District. T think that there are nearly as many children in my school as in the whole of the Grey District. 87. You talk about abolishing the Inspector's notice visits : do you call that an examination? —Too often it resolves itself into an examination. It is not so much any favour on the part of the Inspector as the overanxiety of the assistants to take all sorts of precautions that they shall not be found weak in any subject. I find it very difficult to restrain my staff from keeping children after hours —for instance, about this time of the year.