E.—l2.

70

[E. CAMPBELL.

readily before a class where it was wanted, then it would be of great value, but if you have to darken the class-room for the movable pictures, then you want to show one picture after the other for not less than one hour. Now, a movable picture would be of great value if in the course of one given lesson the one movable picture you want is thrown on the screen, but if you have to show thirty or forty pictures the value is lost to a very great extent. -, - 87. Mr. Davidson.] You are first assistant in the Mount Albert School? —Yes. 88. What is the average attendance in the school? —About six hundred. 89. And the average attendance in the class of which you have charge?—lt is forty-one. 90. Have you noticed in the staffing of the schools that where the average attendance is 401 under the new scale there is a headmaster, with six assistants and four pupil-teachers? That same scale of staffs continues until you reach 481—that is to say, no additional assistance is given between 401 and 480?— I cannot answ-er that question as to the details. We have passed through that stage I know, and we left all the drawbacks of understaffing, and so on. 91. If I tell you it is a fact that no additional assistance is granted until an additional increase of eighty is made, do you think it is desirable that assistance should be given after an increase of fifty?—l do think it most desirable. 92. If there are only a small number of schools between 451. and 480, would it be desirable for the Department to allow the introduction of the new staffing at 151 ? —I presume it would be desirable, and there could be no serious objection to it on the ground of expense, as the number of schools affected is very small. 93. You were referring to the manual instruction, and you objected to the present capitation grants : would you be in favour of a fixed grant for the teaching of all manual subjects, apart say from woodwork, cookery, and agriculture, being made to the Education Boards?—l do not know. All I can say is that our objection is simply as a matter of principle. It simply relates to the excessive clerical labour demanded bj- the present system. 94. Then, if the Boards were granted a fixed sum for the purpose of teaching all these subjects of manual work with the exceptions I have just mentioned, that would do away entirely with this clerical work? —Not necessarily, because the Board may insist on the same system. 95. The Board would not be at all likely to insist, do you think? —Not likely, but it might. 96. You yourself stated that you would have certain branches of manual work taught in all schools : are you aware that in Southland 97 per cent, of the schools do take manual work ? —I was not aware of that. 97. And that in Wanganui 93 per cent, of the schools do take manual work? —I knew the percentage was high in Wanganui, but T did not know what it was. 98. Can you account for the fact that in certain districts only 20 per cent, of the schools take manual work, while in another district 97 per cent, of them do—l am quoting from E.-5, page 2? —I cannot account for that. 99. What I want to get at is this : You object, and I know many teachers throughout the Dominion object, to this clerical work required in furnishing returns?— That is so. 100. And you want to suggest some method by which we can get rid of this —what we consider unnecessary work? —That is so. 101. Even if the Board's capitation grant was increased to 12s. 6d., and they were allowed to spend that money as they chose, but it were insisted upon that certain branches of manual work should be taught in all schools, would that not be a more satisfactory method of dealing with manual work?—lt probably would, but, so far as the teachers are concerned, all they have really instructed me to put before this Commission is their objection to the amount of clerical labour demanded, feeling quite certain that it is within the powers of the Central Department to devise some other scheme if the present scheme is abandoned. 102. The Chairman.] By which the instruction could be given and the amount of clerical labour cast upon the teacher could be avoided at the same time? —That is so. 103. Mr. Davidson.] It would be interesting to the Commission if you were to give the nature of these returns required? —I cannot very well do that, because I have personally so little to do of it myself. lam speaking not for myself, but for the teachers. 104. Have you taught the subject of elementary physical measurements in your school?— No. 105. Do you know the capitation grant made for the teaching of that subject?—l do not remember it. 106. Do.you think that elementary physical measurements might be taught in connection with drawing, geography, and arithmetic? —As a matter of fact, in arithmetic and in drawing we already do a good deal in the way of elementary physical measurements, but I do not know how much further we would have to go to comply with the regulation. 107. The total payment by the Department for manual subjects was about £19,000 a year. If a somewhat simpler method than the capitation-grant method were adopted, do you think that amount might be considerably reduced without impairing the efficiency of the instruction? —It seems to me that whatever the amount is the cost of distribution must be considered, as the labour of the teachers in sending in these returns has to be paid for in some way. The labour of the clerks employed by the director of the Technical College here must be reckoned in some way. A good deal of that labour, it seems to us, could be avoided, and a good deal of that cost could be saved, but I do not know how much. 108. And necessarily also a saving of the teacher's time?— Yes. 109. This manual work in Auckland is in charge of the Director of the Technical College?— All applications for materials are sent to him. 110. Do you know whether that is so in any other district in New Zealand? —I do not know. 111. Is not the technical school here under the absolute control of the Education Board? —Yes.