a—4.

80

[W. BARCLAY.

13. How do you account for these miss-fires : what, in your opinion, is the most prevalent ca-use of them ?—I think most of them are the result of bad stemming, or stones in the stemming. 14. In regard to hot places, do you consider it practicable to fix a standard temperature, on a matter of temperature alone, for a place where a man should not work eight hours ?—No, but I think a maximum temperature could be fixed. 15. You do not think it practicable ? —No, I do not think so. 16. For what reason ?—Well, perhaps I could work in a temperature which would be uncomfortable for you to work in ; and then, again, the temperatures alter very quickly. 17. It depends on the surface conditions ? —That is so : you might have a high temperature both inside and outside in the early part of the day, and in the afternoon it might be quite cool. 18. With your experience in coal-mines, do you consider coal-mining a healthy occupation ? —I do. 19. Have you had any reason to believe that a man working in your mine is more liable to illness than a man employed in an ordinary occupation ?—No ; we have men here fifty and sixty years of age who are healthy and ablebodied. 20. You spoke of the necessity for the men having experience and gaining certificates : what term would you suggest ? —Possibly, two or three years' service. 21. Is it the custom at the present time for the union to accept any man as a member who is prepared to pay his subscription I—l cannot say, but I think the union takes a man's word that he is a miner. 22. Do you consider that some men apply to you for employment whom it would be unsafe to put in a bord by themselves I —Yes, a man should have confidence in himself before he is allowed to work by himself. 23. And you think a man must actually have had experience before he can look after himself in an ordinary place I—Yes,1 —Yes, but they would get work with others in double places. 24. But there are times when you put a man by himself in a place ?—Yes, in single places. 25. But if you employed a man who said he was a competent miner in a single place, he might through lack of knowledge get into serious difficulties ? —Yes, in handling explosives, and through falls from the roof. 26. It is on that account that you think a man should have something to show that he has had previous experience ?—Yes, on that account, and it would be a good thing, too, for those who are experienced coal-miners. 27. The Chairman.] You think that a mere working experience would be sufficient ?—Yes, a mere working experience for, say, two years. 28. Mr. Cochrane.] With regard to making the men observe the rules, what would you recommend ? You say the rules are satisfactory, but the men cannot be made to observe them ? — I say that the union, or the miners' leaders, should urge on the men the necessity for observing the rules. 29. Would you suggest that penalties be provided?— Well, penalties, from the management's point of view, are not of much use. You see, here we are fifteen miles from a Court, and a deputy or other mine official would have to go. 30. What is the height of your highest pillar workings ? —Well, at one time about a year ago we tried to work 25 ft. of pillar and head coal. 31. Are you still doing so ? —No, we reduced it to 12 ft. I will quote from an entry in my diary dated the 31st August, 1910, which is as follows : " Four men brushing heading in old lay-by above the stone parting, and making preparations for working away the top seam before the bottom seam. I have discontinued working these two seams altogether. It is too high for safe working." 32. The reason was that it was too dangerous ?—Yes, we had to prop up the back ground to make it safe after the coal is shot down. 33. And what do you consider a safe height ? —With pillar and head coal, 12 ft. 34. In regard to miss-fires, you give the chief cause of them as bad stemming : have you any other reason to offer for them ? —No. 35. Now, as to temperatures, if it became necessary to fix a standard temperature for reducing a shift from eight to six hours, what would you consider a reasonable thing ? —A maximum of 75° for an eight-hour shift. 36. Saturated ? —Yes, 75° saturated —that is, for an eight-hour shift to be reduced to a six-hour. 37. Mr. Dowgray.] In reply to Mr. Molineaux, you said you thought that the rules should be enforced : what particular rules did you refer to ?— As to men going back after miss-fires before three hours had elapsed ; men visiting places that have not been examined by the deputy; men riding on boxes ; and men not setting timber properly when the underviewer or deputy has instructed them to do so. They set the timber, but they have to be kept up to the work. 38. In regard to permits being granted to men to manage mines without sitting for examination, what is your opinion I—l1 —I think that not more than four or five men should be working under a man with a permit. At the present time the Act allows eight men. We have a good many second-class certificated men in Otago working at the coal-face. 39. You spoke of miners being encouraged to gain a qualification by two years' experience : is there any encouragement for them under the present system of permits ?—lt is still open for a miner to study in order to learn as much as possible about his work. 40. But a man usually studies to better his position ?— Yes. 41. So that you suggest that the number of men under a permit be reduced from eight to four ?—I believe it should be reduced to four or five. 42. Mr. Cochrane.] As a certificated mine-manager, have you had any experience with the wet-and-dry bulb thermometers ?-—No, but I have studied the subject, and Mr. Green, when he has visited the mine, has instructed me in it. I have Dr, Haldane's book on the subject,