G. F. EETLING.]

3

T Qt.

12. Does it affect the award?— Not until the award expires. 13. So long as the award does not expire they are liable to it?— Yes. Mr. Justice Sim told one of the unions here that they could cancel their registration and would not be liable. 14. I want to know whether they would be liable to the award? —I do not know. Mr. Justice Sim said he thought that. 15. Mr. Luke.} In reference to the Dominion award, I think you said you are thoroughly in agreement with that? —Yes, we consider that is a thing that is needed. 16. Mr. Fraser.] In clause 4 you are striking out the word "those and putting in the word " the "?—lt was moved in the council, but I think it is only a matter of making it definite for one of the Commissioners. It says "the Commissioner in those districts." I do not know that it matters much. 17. Is it not broadening the thing; Under the clause it would be confined to the two or more industrial districts specifically in question. By taking out the word "the" you might include two or more? —For myself, I cannot see that it makes any difference, but I am just carrying out the instructions of the council. 18. The Chairman.] My attention has just been called to the fact that the idea of the clause is that the one Commissioner should see the whole tiling through, although it might affect another district besides that he represents, if at the present time there is a dispute in the Wellington District and Auckland it is practically the same thing—it would come under two Commissioners. The Department did no! think it was right?— That may be so. Thomas Smith examined. (No. 2.) 1. Tin Chairman.] What are you? —Secretary of the Wellington Wharf Labourers' Union. . 2. Are you a member of the Wellington Trades and Labour Council? —An officer of the Trades Council. 3. And of the executive? —Yes. We have definite instructions, but as Mr. Reyling has given to the Committee the result of these instructions I do not know that I can add anything to what he has said. He has given the purport of those instructions, and I have no authority to add toanything Mr. Reyling has stated. William Prtor, Secretary of the New Zealand Employers' Federation, examined. (No. 3.) I. The Chairman.] Yon heard the statement made by the last witness and will keep within the four corners of the Bill?— Yes. There are just one or two small points we would like the Committee to consider that are not dealt with in the Bill. First of all, I should like to say that we assume that the primary objects of the Bill are —first, to make provision for the conversion of industrial agreements into awards; second, to make provision to secure Dominion awards; and, third, that notice of disagreement with the Conciliation Council should be given within a certain time.' I might say that my federation approves of provision being made for these purposes. I am sorry to say, however, that we cannot agree with the clauses put forward in the Bill. Taking clause 2, we approve of the clause : it is simply a machinery clause in a ease where a union desires to alter 'its designation, so that it will not suffer any disability by doing so : it will keep its award in operation during the time of transition notwithstanding that the name of the union has been altered. Now, with regard to clause 3, we object to it as it is framed. We desire that simple machinery should be provided whereby an industrial agreement can be made into an award, if that can be done without prejudicing the interests of those who are not parties to the award. The clause proposes that where an industrial agreement has been entered into, and no objection has been made by any of the parties affected thereby within one month of signing the agreement, the Court shall have power to declare the same to be an award if. in the opinion of the Court, the provision is not against the public good. We object to an industrial agreement being made into an award until the other employers in the district have had an opportunity of stating their views with regard to the agreement which is being entered into. I can give you a case—l will not mention the town or place,, but will give you the facts that have come under my own notice and which are absolutely correct. A dispute had arisen between a certain union and certain employers in one of our towns, and' an agreement was arrived at with nine or ten out of twelve employers who were engaged in that particular business in the town. The union came along, filed a dispute, and demanded that the other three employers should be bound by the agreement, I happened to be in "the town when this position arose, and here was the state of things, Mr. Chairman : the nine or ten business people who had agreed to the provision set forward by the union were those who scarcely employed any hands at all, and the stiffer they could make the provisions of that •i. K reement the harder they were hitting up against those employers who were employing the larger ■tmount of labour, and the better for themselves. Now, under this clause it is quite conceivable that those people could come to the Court and the three employers know nothing about the agreement that had been entered into, and the agreement be made into an award. Application would be made for these three employers, who practically employed all the labour in the town, that they should he added as parties, and their interests absolutely prejudiced. When the amendment of 1908 was going through we discussed this aspect of the matter with this Committee, and there was inserted the condition that an agreement should not be made binding unless it was proved that the parties thereto employed a majority of the workers in that industry in the district, Section 67 of the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Amendment Act says, "Whenever it is proved to the Court that an industrial agreement (whether made before or after the commencement of this Act) is binding on employers who employ a majority of the workers in the industry to which it relates in the industrial districts in which it was made, the Court may, if it think fit, on the application of any party to that agreement or of any person bound thereby, make an order extending the operation of that agreement to all employers who are or who at any time after the making