I. 3b.

|T. W. PISHEti.

32. Do you know that Mr. Dodd has been refused 1 bad a letter from him in this connection some time back?—l could not say now. lam under the impression that the Board executed those documents. Peacock, I know, made application. Then- have been two or three others. 33. They have been refused, and have been getting money at practically 10 per cent, from private financial institutions in Wanganui?—l will endeavour to obtain that information to show to the Committee what advances have been made to different lessees. 34. Mr. Duigan made a statement that he could not gel money even from the bank. You say yon know of instances where lessees did get money from the bank. Now. in getting that money bail those particular people collateral security.' No; in the eases I am speaking of the advances were made on the leasehold security only. lion. Mr. Ngata: Mr. Fisher is not speaking of Ohotu leases only, lb- is speaking of other similar leases. 55. The Chairman.] I am referring only to the Morikau and Ohotu Blocks.'—l know that the bank has made advances on lands held under similar tenure. 36. Would that lie a particular person whom I do not wish t ntion, but with whom you and I are acquainted? —No. But it is done. 37. I want to confine you to the Morikau and Ohotu blocks' Mr. Duigan said the bank will not look at the security. I say that the bank has. to my knowledge, in many other instances accepted the security for advances of similar leases in other blocks. 38. Take, for instance. Mr. Kennedy, one ot the settlers: has he got any money from any financial institution.' —Kennedy is not a lessee of Ohotu land: be has a lease of ordinary Native bind. 1 can quite understand the Advances Department or banks not looking at those leases. 39. .1//. wive.] Are the petitioners entitled to compensation at the end of their lease .' Yes. 40. Roading, of course, is not included- it ha- m.i been looked upon as an improvement? — As I point out in my statement, if there is a special rate existing for the loan say, for argument's sake, it is 6d. an acre -the valuers would reduce the unimproved value by 10s. an acre, because the land is liable to a road contribution. You could not add that to the improvements, or you would be making a double oharge. 41. The position, then, is thai if the settlers are tn gel roads they must form special-rating areas? —As I pointed out. the Board agreed to expend a sum id' money on roading. The Board would have gone on spending that in making tracks to the different sections, but the settlers themselves came to the Board and said. " Do not do that, because by so doing you go to the expense of engineering and so on, and as soon as you have handed over these roads to the County Council we will raise loans, and all this engineering will have to be done over again in order to widen the roads." The Board said. "We will hold back, and we will give you our proportion of the money, either by a direct grant or by paying the half-yearly interest." 42. The Maori Land Board would contribute a certain amount? — Yes. The letters that have been read are plain enough. The Board say iii this one that if £3,000 is borrowed they will pay £52 10s. per annum: that is interest and sinking fund on £1.500 of the £3.000. The Board are endeavouring to meet the settlers in every way they can. 43. Mr. Mac Donald.] Mr. Duigan said the solicitors east some doubt on the compensation clause of the leases. What have you to say about that? —1 think the position is as set out in my memfe. Thai solicitor. I take it, was asked about Native land, not vested land. That is what I think, from my reading of the opinion. 11. Mr. Rhodes.] You say that if the land is liable to a rate of (id. an acre for roading, at the end of the term tin- lessees will be allowed for that. Do you mean when assessing the value of the land for the new lease.' -In my experience it has always been recognized between the arbitrators that where a special rate exists on tin land you deduct it from the unimproved value when you are making a revaluation foi the new rent : otherwise the lessee in occupation has to pay twice. 15. But supposing the same tenant does not take the land.'—Then it would be submitted l" competition, xveighted with the value id' the improvements. 46. And be would be repaid what he bad expended? Yes.

APPENDIX. No I. Aotea District Maori Land Board. Wanganui, 4th October, 1907. Memorandum to F, C. Malpas and others. Wanganui. Gentlemen, — Your letter (undated), addressed to " The President and members of the above Board. requesting the cancellation of the timber royalty clause in your leases, was duly considered at a meeting held in Wellington. 30tb ultimo, and I was instructed to reply that. "As the clause in question was one of the conditions of lease when the land was idaccd on the market, the Board has no power to grant the request. ' «*>> be., T. 0. Cummins, Clerk.

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