I.—3a.

92

TE obo WA rim.

85. The Chairman.] You said that your interest in the land extended from the coast-line up to Paniraul —Yes. 86. Do you know thai is a distance of nearly thirty miles on the Mokau River frontage which you claim to have an interest in?—l do not know much about distance in miles, and 1 might make a mistake and mislead you. 87. You know where the steamer starts from the ferry,up to the coal-mine? —Yes. 88. Well, that is twentj two miles .'-Well, my land goes further up than that. <S9. Well, to the Panirau is another eight or ten miles --that is thirty miles/—lt may be more i)i' less. 90. In the whole of that distance of nearly thirty miles will you tell the Committee where any village or any burial-place exists either at the present time or in the past?— Yes, I can. 91. Wheieabouts? At Pukeruru. That was the kainga of my elders Kelly's sawmill. 112. Well, beyond that, what other kainga or burial-place exists?- -Pukeruru was the burialplace at about the lime our mothers gave birth to us. IK'S. Well, above Pukeruru /--The occupation above that was in the time of our ancestors. 114. Whereabouts? —Te Morere ai Panirau. 95. You have always been averse for many years to the disposal of any Maori lands in that district? —Xo such tiling as lease or sale was ever brought into the district till Jones brought it in. 96. Hut 1 ask if you were not always, and are still, averse to the disposal of Maori lands in the Mokau district?— Yes. 97. Did you nol sign the lease to Block Ik which Mr. .(ones got up?— l did in the first instance. That lease was not valid, and he threw it on one side, and he brought a new lease, which I did not sign.

Herrman i.Kwis affirmed and examined. (Xo. 14.) 1. Tin Chairman.] What are you? -Well, at present I am putting 25 acres down in potatoes. 2. Where do you reside.' \i Lower lluti. ■"). Have you seen this paper which is before this inquiry with regard to the Mokau-Mohaka-tino Block?— 1 do not think I have. I. Bave you seen tin' published statements in most of the newspapers dealing with it?— Yes. .">. Mr. Massey has summoned you as a witness: are you prepared to make a statement in connection with the subject-matter of this inquiry or subject yourself to examination by Mr. Massey.' I have no wish. Whatever you wish to know I will tell you if 1 oan. (i. Mr. Ma»seyJ\ Will you give us the date when you lirst became connected with the MokauMohakatino Block ! —I could not give definite dates, i think it was at the end of October or November, L 90- towards the latter end of 1907. 7. You had some business transactions at thai lime in connection with the bjnek ?— X T o, sir: I had dealings with the solicitors who acted on b< half of the trustees of Wickham Flower's estate. 8. Who wire the solicitors? Mr. Campbell, of Travel's, liussell. ami Campbell. !). Will you tell us the nature of those dealings? Yes. I took an option over the property. They gave me an option for a period to purchase the property. It). When you say "to purchase the property," you do nol mean the freehold? No; the leasehold interest. 11. Then (he leasehold interest belonged to their clients I—Yes,1 — Yes, the executors of Wickham Flower. 12. Did you go and see the property I Nol ,'t that time a little later. I.'!. Did you purchase the leasehold interesi .' Later. I got an option at first, ami sold it. l-i. You sold the option? —Xo ; 1 sold the property. On the 18th May. 1908, 1 sold the property to Mason Chambers, Roberi Donald Douglas McLean, ami Sir Francis Price, Hart. I sold the leasehold interesi of the property. 15. You had not acquired it at that date, had you/ I hail acquired the option over it. Hi. Then you only sohl the option/—I had the light to purchase. 17. You sold the righi to purchase?- Yes. IS. What was the amount of the option? £ I 1,000. 19. Is it iiol a fact that mil took up the option and acquired the interest :' Yes, I bought it. 20. Was that after selling the option to the gentlemen whose names you have mentioned or before?—My option had not expired ai that time. 1 sold it first. 21. And then you purchased afterwards/ Yes, I completed the transaction. 22. 1 suppose it is a fact thai you remortgaged it to the executors of Wickham Flower ai the time you purchased it? —Yes. 23. At the same amount /-- Xo : that would be hardly fair in this case. 1 sold the property to the people mentioned for £25,000 and one-eighth interest. They paid £5,000 cash deposit. Of that £5,000, £4,300 was locked up with Messrs. Moorhouse and Hadfield, solicitors. Wellington, towards the |iiirchase inonev. but the remainder was never paid over, and consequently 1 gave a mortgage back over the full amount of £14,000 to Wickham Flower's trustees. ■J, I. Well, was the sale completed?— Well, that amount of £4,300 has been locked up for the last three years. 2"). Was the sale of the option completed to the gentlemen whose names you have mentioned? >;„. Mr. P. S. McLean, solicitor for the people who bought, objected because lie thought there was a flaw i n the title. 26. The sale was not completed , / Xo. 27. You became owner of the leasehold interest subject to a mortgage of £14,000?— Yes. 28. Could you give us the date? 1 am not quite sure, but T think the 20|h AT:w\ 190 R.