P. RATTENBURY.j

87

L—3a.

76. At the first time while the proceedings were under consideration as to testing this lease the whole of the Mokau people were against any proposition for sale—they would not entertain any proposition for sale? —No, they would not. 77. While dealing with the position in regard to taking action in the Supreme Court?— Yes. 78. When they removed to Te Kuiti after they knew the money could not be raised and subject to the proceedings being taken, how many were left living in Mokau —did not a great humber go to Tβ Kuiti ?—I think Wetini and Tere may have been present. A few vent from Mokau to Te Kuiti, 79. And how many were left at Mokau? —Just a few old people. They were all big owners. And the grandchildren had to do likewise. 80. The old people were left behind—it was not convenient for them to travel? —Some were too old to travel. 81. And some young children?— Well, a few of them. I know Taramau was one there. 82. He could prove they went to Te Kuiti?—Yes. 83. Were there any proxies obtained by the agents from the different owners for representation I —l could not nay. This old gentleman Te Oro Watihi was not, and my wife was not. 84. You could not say what proxies were obtained from the owners? —No, but Te Oro Watihi signed one agreement with Hardy. 85. But you heard of proxies being obtained from owners who were not likely to be at Te Kuiti?—Yes, I heard that. That was done at Te Kuiti. 86. At the beginning of these proceedings were not the owners of the Mokau lands divided into two sections? —It was simply Te Kuiti against Mokau. 87. But there was a division amongst the owners? —Yes. 88. One section being desirous of selling and the other section against the sale?— Yes. 89. You could not say, in round numbers, how many belonged to each party at the start?—No, I could not, not from memory. 90. There are four blocks, are there not?— Yes, four blocks. 91. In some of the blocks the sellers would bo in the majority, would they not? —Yes, I think they were. 92. And in some of the other blocks the non-sellers would be in the majority?— Yes. 93. In If, for instance, which is the largest block of the lot, the majority were sellers? —Yes. 94. And in Ih, which was a valuable block, the non-sellers were in the majority? —Yes. 95. Now, what is your opinion of the value of that land : have you been all over it , )—Yes, I have been alongside it for twenty-two years. I know the land pretty well. 90. You have been over all the subdivisions? —Yes, pretty well. 97. What is your opinion of that land? —Some good land and some rough. 98. What would the rough part be —the greater portion of it?—l think from 10,000 to 12,000 acres —what I call pretty hilly, steep. , 99. What value do you put on that? —That is a matter of opinion. I should say about 10e. an acre. 100. And there is land again of less inferior quality —that would be the very hilly part?— Yes, I am speaking of the rough ridges from Mokau to Mohakatino. 101. There would be portions again of a little more value? —Oh, certainly. 102. How would you classify it—into three classes?—l do not think there is any country bo rough as that I should call it first- and second-class land. 103. Then, less 12,000 acres, the whole block is first-class land? —Yes. 104. What would you give for it? —For the freehold straight out? 105 Yes?—lf the "leases were out of the way I would give from £1 ss. to £1 10s. an acre. 106. With the leases, what would you give?— About 10s. 107. What the Maoris got?— Yes. 108. What areas would yon think it fit for cutting up into?— Some 400- or 500-acre sections. 109. That would be the "portions along the river? —Yes. 110. How much of that would there be —what proportion?— That I could not say. 111. Is it easy country to road?— No. Mokau is a bit awkward. This side of the river had n good road to it. 112. Supposing you were going to cut it up into small holdings of 500 acres, you would have to road it?— You would have to follow the road on each side. 113. Would it be easily roaded? —Yes, I think so. Mokau could be fairly well loaded. 114. But when cutting it up into sections of 500 acres? —No, it would not be good to road— it would be expensive. You get tracks, but when you go to the high country Ido not think you have the distance to get the grade there in some places. 115. Is not the objection on the part of some of the old people to the sale based on their principles of Te Whiti-ism and Tohu-ism? —No, simply that they never signed the lease. 116. But are there not some of the old people who would not sell or si<_m anything because of their belief?— Yes, there are the three I have mentioned —that was why they never sfgned the lease. 117. Is Te Awaroa a Te Whiti-ite?—Yes. 118. Do you not know there is a very strong creed not to sign anything?— Yes, although thi« old gentleman, Iβ Oro Watihi, signed a lease since Te Whiti died. 119. There are three or four who refuse to sign anything in regard to the disposition of land?— Yes. 120. With regard to Mrs. Rattenbury, she succeeded one of her elders who had not signed the lease?— Yes. 121. With the hope that that might ?—Be worth 30s. instead of 10s. 122. And that the land was still not subject to the lease? —Yes.