I.—3a.

78

[E. H. HABDY.

215. Then do you accept Tuiti Maodonald's statement! —1 do not require it. I made that out myself. 1 got from the Natives the total area of land held by those people on our side and on Pepene's side, and I will tell you how 1 arrived at my conclusion. Here is the statement in this book, showing the different blocks. On our side the total came to 35,489 acres, and on I'epene's side 13,.'580. Now, the whole area is 48,870 acres. 216. 1 am not asking you about area: 1 am asking about the number of owners!—l have nothing to do with the number of owners. 217. What I asked you was whether you are prepared to accept Tuiti Macdonald's state tnent as oorreot, that 75 per cent, of the owners were opposed to the sale'/ —He did not say that. 1 knew what he meant. 218. The Chairman.] Will you just answer the questions, please—Yes or No?- Mr. Massey will not understand that the 77 per cent, refers to shareholding. 21!). Mr. Massey.] J am asking you whether you agree with this statement of Tuiti Macdonald's.: " Before the resolution was put I was quite confident 1 would defeat it, because I had quite 77 pel cent, of the owners with me"?— The President of the Board knew what that referred to. 220. Do you agree with that statement/— Not if it means 77 per cent, of the owners, but if it means sli ire interest represented by those owners, certainly. The only thing that comes before the President of the Board and that ho can consider at all is the shareholding of the different people. If \ou look at the Act you will find that shareholding counts: owners numerically do not count at all. 221. We understand that You will admit that 75 per cent, of the share-owners were opposed to the sale?— Yes. 222. About those telegrams : There was a telegram from Mr. Macdonald to yourself dated the 7th March : " Bell not required. Will arrive Thursday morning." You remember that telegram'( —Yes. 223. Do you remembei the date?—lt was on the telegram, which I handed in. 224. Then do you remember this telegram from Mr. Bell to you: "Thanks for telegran? about rooms, but await your reply whether you consent my not going. Much prefer stay in Wellington.' , That was the Bth March? —Yes. 225. So that the expression of opinion from Mr. Bell that he would much prefer to stay in Wellington hud nothing to do with the decision of Mr. Macdonald or yourself not to have him appear for the Natives at Te Kuiti on the occasion of the mooting! — That is rather complicated. 226. The point is this: on the 7th MMich Macdonald wired to you that Mr. Bell was not required? —It may be the 7th. 1 may not have got it till the Bth. It depends on whether tin messages arrived at Te Kuiti by "> o'clock. After 5 o'clock We may not get them. 227. What I want you to say is whether, before Mr. Bell's telegram reached you in which he stated that he preferred to stay in Wellington, yon and Tuiti Macdonald had stated that it would not be necessary for him to come to Te Kuiti ? —1 do not know. Judge that from the telegrams. I sent then] practically simultaneously. 228. They were both telegrams that you received, but one is dated the 7th and the other the Bth. One is from Mr. Macdonald and the other from Mr. Bell?- Yes. 22!). Maedonr.ld on the 7th says it is not necessary for Mr. Bell to come : is that not so?— Possibly, yes. 230. On the Bth you received a telegram from Mr. Bell to the effect that he would prefer to stay in Wellington. Is that not so? —1 have not the telegrams before me, and am not drawing any conclusions from them. 231. But I am drawing conclusions from them. I want you to answer this question : You had practically made up your mind, according to these dates, before the receipt of Mr. Bell's telegram, that he would not bo required at Te Kuiti 1 — No; I gave him plenty of time to say whether lie would come or not. 232. Then Macdonald, according to this telegram, had made up hi« mind that Mr. Bell would not be required? — l do not'know. lam not considering the facts at all: 1 simply place tnem before you. Macdonald's telegram may have been delayed in si.me way. You must judge from the telegrams. There are the dates on them. I did not make any comment on them. 23.'!. You are not able to offer an explanation?—No, I do not offer an explanation. 234. You tell us that you know all about these blocks'! —Not till about them. 235. Will you tell us how many acres the company control on the southern side!— No. 236. You know they do control a block on the southern side? —1 do not know anything about it. 237. You are on your oath. Did you not Live evidence with regard to the coal-mine and the land on the other side of the river, and state that the coal-mine is situated on the southern side?—lt is situated on the northern block—the Mangapapa Block. 238. On the Auckland side?—Yo.s. 230. That is the block of which I am speaking : do you know how many acres there arc in that block?- —About 12.01)0. There is a smaller area of 1,500 acres covering the coal-mine. 240. In addition? That is about 14,000 acres? -Yes. 241. And the company control that block?— T do not know what they control. 242. The Chairman .] Can yon not answer by saying you do not know what the company are troing to do? —Mr. Massey is not content with that. 243. Mr. Massey.] If you will simply say Yes or No to my questions I shall bo satisfied. 1 want to get from you whethei you know the area of land which the company controlled on the side of the river on which the coal-mine is situated? —— The Chairman: It is altogether an irrelevant question. The witness is not supposed to know what the company in going to do.