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74. Do you think that would influence the operations of the company would be more than half the rent they would get —2£ per cent, of the capital of the company and 2| per cent, of the profits of the company. 75. I understood you to gay that the object was that they should hold interests in the land? —Yes, they could participate in the gains and profits. 7G. Because they wished to still reside there? —Not necessarily reside there. They live on the other side of the river altogether : there are no Natives, as far as 1 know, living on that block. 77. Do you think their small number of shares would have any controlling influence on the (H)iiipany? —No, it would not have a controlling influence. 78. Or any influence? —No influence detrimental to the company 79. But supposing the company wished to act one way and the Natives another, could the Natives influence the company?— Certainly not. They have a voice, and their voice would be respected. 80. Who holds the company's shares now? —I presume Mr. Howler, the President of the Board. 81. If you think the Natives made a good bargain by selling for £25,000, do you think the company made a good bargain by purchasing? —l do not know. 1 do not express any opinion upon that—that remains to lie proved entirely. 82. If the Natives made a good bargain, what becomes of the value of the shares : it must follow that tin. company has made a bad one/ —They will participate in the gains and not lose anything in the losses. There is everything to gain and nothing to lose. 8."!. Supposing they made a profit of 5 per cent., what would the Natives get?— '2l> per cent, on 3 pei , cent., whatever that is. Not 50 per cent, of the 5, hut '21 per cent, as their share of the dividend, whatever that might be. 84. What is the general dividend that a coal-mining company pays?—l do not know. It may be very large or very small. 85. Have you ever known any pay more than 10 per cent.? —Take the Taupiri Coal Company : they could pay more than 1\ per cent., and have been selling their land. Ido not know what the profit on the land is. Yes, probably more than £1,000. What they pay and what they have in reserve are two different things. 86. I am trying to get at what the Natives are going to get out of it?— They will get 2£ per cent, of the 5 per cent, of the lot. 87. Would thai lie vrry much amongst the Natives? —IT they make .£5,000 a year, the Natives would get 2£ per cent, of that. 88. Do you think that a large sum to be divided amongst the Natives? —They were only getting a farthing an acre. They were getting rent and an interest in the land too. 89. You have had considerable experience in connection with Native land since you went to the King-country?— Yes. 90. You have bought Native land? —Yes, and cultivated Native land. 91. Have you ever known of an Order in Council being issued to allow the limitation of areas being exceeded?— No. 92. You have never applied for an Order in Council?—No, never. 93. Have you ever known of a case of land being sold by the Natives, and then being vested in the Chairman of the Land Board?—No, I have had no experience of that. I can only speak of what I know. 94. Then, this transaction presents a great many unusual features?- —I have not considered anything outside my own province. 95. Y r ou have never known an Order in Council being issued? —It has not come to my mind it is outside my province. 96. Supposing a sale had not taken place, would you have secured what you had spent? — I will now commence a new gel of details, and that is this : When the Natives had a meeting at Te Kuiti I was instructed to apply to the Mokau Company for the expenses of the Natives. That was on the 1 1th. 97. You woe i,, apply to the company for , your expenses) — Yes, for the expenses of the Native agents and law expenses. 98. Has that been done? —Yes, I did so. 99. Have you been paid? —No, I have not. Some money has been paid, and it is in suspense. 100. Was this payment of the expenses of the Natives to be in addition to the .£25,000? —Yes. 101. And you say that none of it has been paid yet? —I have paid a good deal of it away, but it is still held in suspense. 102. How much beyond (!).■ £25,000 was estimated to lie paid by the company?-—lhe arrangement 1 made with the company was this, and I communicated it immediately to every member of the committee: that the company would assist up to and not exceeding £1,000. 10.3. fn addition to the £25,000?— Yes. 104. Then do you know anything about the £2..">00 being subtracted from the payment to tin- Natives? —Not directly. I do, indirectly. 105. The original intention was to subtract £2,500? —1 was at the meeting of assembled owners in Te Kuiti when Pepene Eketone got up and asked that 10 per cent, be deducted from the moneys payable to the owners of the block. 1 did not know what arrangement they had made beforehand. 106. 'that £2,500 was also to pay the expenses'' 1 presume so — to go towards it. As far as we were concerned it would go towards it if there was any deficiency. 107. And then there was this additional £1.000 from the company.'- They guaranteed the expenses not exceeding ,£l,OOO. 108. Supposing there had been no sale to the company, how would your expenses have been paid? —I do not know. That was an eventuality I did not consider,

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