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2 June, 1911.] Commercial Relations and British Shipping. [4cth Day. Mr. BUXTON— cont. he seemed to imply, I thought, that we might denounce these treaties, at all events a portion of them, with a view of obtaining freedom in connection with this matter. No doubt that might be done under certain circumstances if the end in view would justify the means, but the view we have taken about it is much wider than that. lam speaking now as to our position as regards foreign ships and foreign trade. We think it is not a question of merely denouncing the treaties, but that if this attempt was made, which is the suggestion, namely, to confine the trade of Great Britain with the Commonwealth to British or to Commonwealth ships, this would be very largely resented by the Foreign Powers interested, and the result would be that we should be open, as we are open all the world over, to attack and retaliation. Mr. PEARCE : It is not the whole trade, but only the trade in those articles which are the subject of the preferential tariff. Mr. BUXTON : Yes, but still it is practically confining the trade, or very largely excluding foreign ships from a portion of the Australian trade. What we, as representatives of British shipping here, and representatives, I hope, of the British Dominions as well, are nervous about is the power and opportunity of retaliation against our British shipping all the world over on any of these matters. I would point out to the Conference that out of the 285,000,000 tons of British shipping all the world over, no less than 164,000,000 tons goes to foreign ports, and a comparatively small portion goes to Australian ports, and therefore for the advantage, and no doubt the considerable advantage, of the trade of the Commonwealth, we do not think it would be worth while to risk the possibility of disadvantage accruing to the very enormous trade which we have with other Powers. That is really the substantial reason why, as at present advised, we do not think on the whole it would be expedient to adopt the proposal of the Commonwealth Government. As regards one question incidental to that raised by Mr. Pearce, namely, that they would not only propose to differentiate against foreign ships, but at the same time they would differentiate against British ships which carried crews other than white crews, that particular point, I think, will be raised on a motion of Sir Joseph Ward later on on some subsequent day, and so perhaps I had better not discuss it now. But I should like just to say this, in reference to what fell from Mr. Pearce : that I cordially agree that as far as possible the British mercantile marine should be manned by British subjects—l am not touching on what their colour should be, but British subjects. I dare say it would be to a certain extent a satisfaction to Mr. Pearce to know that since the passing of the last Merchant Shipping Act of 1906 the proportion of British sailors as compared with foreign sailors has gone up in percentage. In 1905 it was 68 per cent, as against 15 per cent, of foreign sailors, and—l am not speaking of Lascars and Asiatics —in 1910 it had gone up to 73 per cent, as against 11 of foreigners. So as far as it goes the tendency is in the right direction. Ido not say it is altogether satisfactory. : Mr. PEARCE : What proportion of them are British, and what proportion Lascars? Mr. BUXTON : These are entirely whites we are speaking of. Mr. BATCHELOR : It is much more satisfactory than the previous development —two years before. Mr. BUXTON : Yes, it is. For some years before it was stationary. Since the Act of 1906, I am glad to say, the proportion has, as I have pointed out, very materially increased. We are not satisfied with that, we should like to see a higher proportion still of British as against foreign sailors in our mercantile