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2nd Day.] Imperial Council. [25 May, 1911. Mr. FISHER : It is as big as the other. Sir JOSEPH WARD : Yes, it is. At all events, I am submitting this proposal because I am impressed with the fact that to-day in reality the oversea Dominions are helpless. I have no hesitation in saying in the presence of other representatives here that I am certain they are all prepared to accept their responsibilities in connection with defence matters; but, as a matter of fact, they are all helpless, and they know nothing. I speak for New Zealand, and though we take our part quite willingly, we know nothing whatever as to the possibilities of troubles arising that we are bound to be drawn into. But as British countries, with people of various nationalities in them, we have come to a point when a change is necessary if we are to have our people with us in taking our part in connection with the general defence of the Empire. We must have some alteration of the present disjointed so-called system. That is what lam trying to arrive at, and what I am hopeful that something may be done in connection with. I recognise to the full the truth of what Mr. James Bryce, the British Ambassador in America, says upon this point of central control as against divided control in distant portions of the Empire. He says that: " The great principle applicable "-—— The PRESIDENT : What are you quoting from—his book ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : Yes. " The great principle applicable in every branch and art of government is that the more power that is given to the units which compose an empire, be these units large or small, and the less that is given to a central or Imperial authority, so much the fuller will be the liberty and so much greater the energy of the individuals who compose the people as a whole." I agree with those sentiments absolutely, and, apart altogether from any of the proposals I make to this Conference, that is the spirit that underlies the proposals I am making; the motive I have endeavoured, however imperfectly, to explain to the members of the Conference. Now, I want just to say one word upon what I believe, if we had a properly constituted authority, our respective Dominions, as far as the people are concerned, would be favourable to —namely, what might be done in the matter of general Naval Defence, without loss of local dignity to any Dominion, without any loss of prestige, and still would, I believe, be of superior advantage to the individual portions of the Empire, especially to the Old World, and would go towards making the peace of the world assured. I spoke of the absence of uniformity of system by which a contribution could be made for naval purposes. I know what is being done in Canada, I know what is being done in Australia, and I recognise the enormous amount the Old Country is doing quite irrespective of all our Dominions in every possible way. I recognise, too, the large share the British taxpayer has taken in contributing towards the general support of the oversea Dominions as far as Naval Defence is concerned, and what they have done so magnificently and cheerfully in the past. I believe we ought, as far as the white people in our respective countries are concerned, to have a uniform system of contribution—and I want to make that clear —for Naval Defence. Upon the basis of 13 millions of white people (and there are more than that—l am not overstating it) in the British Dominions, if we were to give for Naval Defence 10s. per capita we would provide 6,500,000 Z. a year, and if our annual amount of 6,500,000£. was put into the purchase of battleships (I call them Dreadnoughts for the purposes of my argument) at 2,000, 0001. each, there could be provided for out of the annual contribution three Dreadnoughts per annum. But, as a matter of practice, I think I ought to say, Mr. Asquith, that, although it may be done occasionally, the building of battleships is not generally provided for out of revenue. The PRESIDENT : We do it here, you know. Sir JOSEPH WARD : Not always. Mr. FISHER : Our proposal is always revenue, and no other policy will ever be tolerated.