D.—4.

94

[r. MCCABROLL.

42. You think it possible to connect Waipu by a fairly level line at a distance of not more than eight miles?—-Yes. 43. That connection will be somewhere in this neighbourhood ?—Yes. 44. Mr. Beeroft.] If the State acquired the largest private properties on the xvestern side of the Tangihua Range, what opinion xvould you hold then as to the relative value of the two lines?— From the point of view of the value of the land, the ultimate population it xvould carry, and productivity, there is no doubt that the xvestern route is the best.

Auckland, Friday, sth Mat, 1911. Francis Mandeh examined. (No. 60.) 1. The Chairman.] You are member of Parliament for Marsden, and reside at Whangarei? — Yes. 2. Would you like to make a statement to the Commission as to the matter we are inquiring into? —Yes, I shall be very pleased to do so. I understand that one statement was made while the Commission was taking evidence to the effect that the western route from McCarroll's Gap would serve 1,000,000 acres of country. I have a plan here which shows that it is, roughly, about forty miles from McCarroll's Gap to where the two lines meet northward. If you reckon the country to be on the average twenty miles wide between the railway-line and the west coast you will find that there are only 500,000 acres of land in that stretch of territory. It is about seventeen miles from Kirikopuni to the west coast, and a little over twenty miles from McCarroll's Gap to the west coast. Farther north the distance is about equal by either route; so that you can only calculate on 500,000 acres, and about half of that area is served by the Wairoa River and Kaihu Railway. 3. Mr. Coom.] I think the witness referred to was Mr. Harding, but ha did not mention either east or west?— What I have stated was the impression that was left on the public mind— that 1,000,000 acres would be served by the western deviation. But I can hardly conceive, supposing that that 1,000,000 acres did exist on the western route, that the trade from the Wairoa River will go to the railway at Kirikopuni mi its way to Auckland, or that the goods delivered from Auckland to Kirikopuni by rail would go down the river to Dargaville. A point was also made that goods were delivered at Whangarei at 7s. 6d. a ton, and that is correct, or about Bs., including wharfage and other charges. But il would cost to deliver goods at Kirikopuni from Whangarei, over the present bad roads at this time of the year, fully £3 a ton, even if it could be done for that sum. In summer-time it would cost £2 to £2 10s. a ton. In the other direction I think the present charges are about £1 15s. a ton from Auckland, via the Wairoa River, to Kirikopuni. There they can deliver goods all the year round, because they have water carriage, and the roads do not affect the matter at all. I thoroughly agree with the engineers who laid off the central route, which is as nearly as possible the best in the interests of the whole community. It has been stated that the western route was the most central route. I do not wish to say anything I cannot substantiate, but I might state that, crossing the river at Kirikopuni, the western line is seventeen miles from the west coast, thirty-three miles from the east coast, and twelve miles from the Kaihu Valley Railway. And seeing that this railway will be used very largely for the carriage of sheep and other stock, as well as for passengers, equal facilities ought to be given to people on each side of the Island to get their stuck to the Main Trunk line. I believe that the engineers were absolutely in the right in the first instance in laying out the line, and that they followed the most direct, cheapest, and best route to the far north. 4. Mr. Ronayne.] Which line are you referring to? —The one laid out in the first instance. 5. Mr. Coom.] You are not referring to Knorpp's line? —It is practically Knorpp's line as far as he went—to Maungatapere on the east. There was no objection from the people on the eastern side of the line to its being deviated from the originally surveyed position nearer to the Tangihua Range, which was the most recent survey. That would have hugged Tangiteroria pretty closely, arid the Tangihua Range. It would have gone a considerable distance from the original survey; but when it was proposed to go right to the western side of the range, of course, naturally there was strong objection. I do not know whether it would be in order for me to rsfer to the petition presented to the House in regard to this-railway a year or two ago. 6. The Cliairman.] I think you would be in order? —Well, a petition was presented to the House from the people on the western side stating that to the east of the present route there were only some nine hundred people, and who would be equally well served by a more central route; and that on the west of the present proposed line there were seven thousand five hundred people, who would be practically prevented from making use of the railway when completed. The point I want to make in that connection is that when the petition was presented the people in the Wairoa advocated the western route, and they included the population of Dargaville and Tangiteroria in the population of the western route, but they only took in a portion of Otamatea County, which goes down to Mangawai, in ascertaining the population on the eastern route. 7. Mr. Stall worthy.] Do you indorse that?—l do not, and I spoke strongly on the question in the House when the petition was presented. There is another statement in this petition I wish to refer to. It says that "by crossing the deep water of Kaipara Harbour at Young's Point the whole of the lands mi both sides of Wairoa River, as well as those settlers on the different estuaries, will be served and brought into immediate railway connection, while the route favoured by the Publio Works Department cut all those people off from any benefit by the railway."