47

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25 May, 1911.] Imperial Council. [2nd Day. Sir JOSEPH WARD—cont. same time. Any war to which the statesmen of the United Kingdom commit the Empire involves Canada, as well as New Zealand, and all other portions of the Empire, and from the point of view of international law Canada is as much a part of the Empire as England. I would ask the Conference to look facts broadly and candidly in the face, and if independent naval policies, such as I have referred to, are to continue on the part of the oversea Dominions, I express the sincerest conviction of my mind when I say that this does not make for a strong position in connection with the Imperial ties being maintained and upon which, in my opinion, the whole Empire's material interests now rest. I have explicitly called the scheme I propose to outline an Imperial Parliament of Defence. Defence is above all other questions the one in which every part and subject of the Empire is vitally concerned. The PRESIDENT : Just a moment. The words used in your Resolution are, "An Imperial Council of State "; you spoke just now of an Imperial Parliament of Defence. Ido not find any such phrase in the resolution. Sir JOSEPH WABD : I do not mind what the name is —an Imperial Council of State or an Imperial Parliament of Defence, or a Defence Council. The PEESIDENT : They are practically synonymous, you think ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : Yes. Perhaps I ought to use the term Imperial Council of State. Defence is above all other questions the one in which every part and subject of the Empire is vitally concerned. It is the great vital topic which can be treated only by a proper Council of State. lam going to assume that this is obvious, and I will not occupy the time of the Conference by arguing the matter. But I want to express my firm conviction that the course both Canada and Australia have taken is one which the present relationship between them and the Motherland almost compels them to take. If Canada were to contribute to the Imperial Navy the very large sum she has provided on her estimates for a building programme, a naval college and annual maintenance, amounting to some millions of pounds sterling—if she were to contribute this or any other great sum yearly to an Imperial Navy, and the question of war or peace arises, she would find herself with no more voice, under the present system, in determining whether the Empire should go to war or not than if she were the smallest dependency of a Foreign Power. Consequently, under the existing system and on these assumptions, Canada would not only witness herself being committed to all the perils of warfare, but' she would witness the ships and armaments created out of her great contributions devoted, without her consent or approval, without the right to a voice at all, to the perils of belligerency. I have taken Canada merely as an illustration; but under the existing system every other oversea Dominion would be in precisely the same situation. New Zealand is, at present, content to make an unconditional annual contribution of money to the Imperial Navy. As time proceeds, and as our means increase, we look forward to substantially increasing this aid; but what I desire to impress at this moment is the point that if the whole of the oversea Dominions are to place themselves under tribute to the Imperial Treasury for the creation and maintenance of an Empire Navy, they surely are entitled to some voice—proportioned, it may be, to their size and contribution—in such a vital question as peace or war. Consequently, it seems to me that the question of an Imperial Council of State, or Defence, more vitally concerns the United Kingdom than it does the oversea Dependencies; Canada, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand can, and cheerfully will, if necessary (of course, I am speaking entirely on behalf of New Zealand), go on under the existing system providing for their own defence in the way which seems best to them; but can the United Kingdom survey such a course with complacency under the growing burdens which the maintenance of her naval supremacy imposes ?

7—A. 4.