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Ist Day.] Imperial Council. [23 May, 1911. Sir JOSEPH WARD— cont. out by facts. It cannot be denied that in some respects there is a trend, particularly in the settlement of some of our countries and in the extraction of people from this Old Country, which has tended to weaken the Old Land and, while giving strength to the newer land so far as numbers are concerned, to' do nothing to increase the Imperial unity to which I have just referred. We want to prevent this in the future in connection with the various outstanding portions of the British Empire. The growth of the oversea Dominions is in some respects so remarkable that it calls for the very greatest consideration on the part of the representative men both from those countries and in the older country, in order to prevent the difficulties arising in the years to come which then would be almost impossible of settlement, but which, if taken early in our development, may be prevented from arising. These cannot at the present moment be called acute, because our populations to some extent are limited. Now, it is an underestimate when I say that in the oversea Dominions there are to-day 13 millions of white people. There are in all probability about 15 millions, but I prefer not to in any way overstate the position; and I want to call attention to the enormous importance to the United Kingdom of the policy of exporting people to those countries to-day. Scotland has increased its population less in the last 10 years than New Zealand has, and some 50,000 Scotsmen are leaving the Clyde within the next four months to settle in some of the oversea Dominions. The territory represented by my friend Sir Wilfrid Laurier is increasing its population at the present time by about 650,000 per annum. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : Quite that amount. Mr. FISHER : What does it do with them ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : At present I am referring to the increased population from the United States of America and elsewhere; I speak subject to correction by Sir Wilfrid Laurier, but from the information I was able to obtain, the natural increase of Canada appears to be 250,000 per annum, and, as far as I can judge, the figures show that those coming from all outside quarters number about 400,000, which makes 650,000. The PRESIDENT : Is that right ? Sir WILFRID LAURIER : I counted the immigration as 400,000. Sir JOSEPH WARD : The immigration is 400,000 and the natural increase 250,000. You will see the point of the argument I propose to place before the Conference presently. That is an annual increase, at the present rate, of 650,000. The population of Canada at present I put down at 8,000,000; it is probably more, and if the present rate of increase continues for the next 25 years I am not very wide of the mark when I affirm that in 25 years from now Canada will have upwards of 30 millions of people. In fact, I think, judging from the figures I have investigated, it would be nearer 40 millions than 30 millions This I base upon the assumption, which I have a reasonable right to expect that the drawing power of Canada at present of people from outside representing in round figures 400,000 a year, is likely to go on for many years t< come I hope from the Canadian point of view it will be so, and that the natural increase will not be less than the 250,000 per annum which it is at the present time. Under these circumstances I consider lam pretty right in assuming that in 25 years from now Canada will have at least 30 millions of people. ; , . I make this statement for the purpose of showing where the oversea countries are going to get to in 25 years from now. I need not go into any details concerning any of the other great oversea Dominions, Australia or bouth Atncu