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think that th«i driving of aii electric car is equally important with the driving of a locomotive, because whereas the electric car is driven along the public streets, the locomotive is driven on private property, and therefore is not so liable to accidents. The members therefore think that the motormen should be raised to the status of the engine-driver under the Government Inspection of Machinery Act, They also think it would allow of uniformity throughout the systems in New Zealand if they were able to obtain employment, because it would be said ' This man is qualified, because he has a Government certificate." That is not now the case, because, while there are'some centres which grant certificates, the men would have to undergo examination to show that they are fully qualified, and that has been proved by motormen coming from England and Scotland and obtaining employment in the Dominion after a cursory examination by the man in charge in the Corporation or company Another reason given by the motormen in Christchurch was that there would be absolutely no chance of favouritism in the Government appointing an Inspector to examine these men. I say that advisedly I use the word ' favouritism," but I do not wish to imply that, so far as Christchurch is concerned, there has been favouritism, but I say it would obviate the chance of favouritism. While it is said that there has been favouritism, we have no proof of it, and I think it will be realized by the Committee that there is always a chance of it in a corporate body by people who want employment. That is a danger that would be obviated by obtaining a Government Inspector to grant these certificates. Then, again, the Corporation look at it from a wholly commercial point of view The fact of having to teach a man means that it costs a considerable amount of money, and they are not likely to incur more expense that they can help That would not be a factor with the Government. The only factor would be efficiency, and that is what the Bill is trying to give to the public, and for that reason we think that the clause ought to go through as printed. Clauses 3 and 4 I shall not touch on. Clause 5, with regard to periodical and other inspection, we regard as important. We think, with regard to the licensing of carriages, that, while we understand there are Orders in Council having reference to the matter at present, yet at the same time, as representatives of the union, we have not been able to get the Orders in Council. We approached the Minister of Public Works and asked him to supply us with the Orders in Council relative to the Christchurch Corporation and the Minister replied that the were printed by the Corporation and indorsed by the Public Works Department, and that the Corporation had the printing of them. On receipt of that reply the union approached the Corporation with a request to be supplied with copies. This was done by correspondence , and the reply of the- Tramways Board was to the efiect that the Orders in Council could be perused on application to the officer In view of this Tramways Bill coming on, no other action was taken in the matter, as it was thought that the Bill would overcome those difficulties in the Orders in Councils which we thought were not being observed. With regard to the licensing of cars, we contend, from our practical knowledge, that this is imperatively necessary and it does not seem that any one on the Board has that practical knowledge. We therefore think that the Government ought to have an official who should be able to say how many passengers shall be carried on a car—that is, the maximum number In connection with this matter I do not know whether it is more notorious in Christchurch that in other parts of the Dominion, but, taking the New Brighton car, I have to say that on an electric car with two trailers they have to slow down for seven or eight minutes to collect the fares, and when the motorman has been seven or eight minutes late he has been asked what kept him. It was absolutely due to the fact of the Order in Council not being complied with that this state of affairs occurred, and the motorman has had the blame for it. That illustration should be sufficient to justify the Government putting in the clause prescribing the number of passengers that ought to be carried on any particular route or grade. More than that, the overloading of these carriages interferes with the proper working of the brakes. The motormen say that the weight caused by the overcrowding presses the springs down and prevents the effective working of the brake consequently if an accident happened the motorman would have to justify his position, and very likely be blamed for what he had no control over That is why we think the Government are Justified in putting this clause in the Bill, and for that reason we think there should be a competent man to decide these things. In reference to the speed-limit on any particular route or grade we also think that should be in the discretion of the Government. At the same time we think'it should be limited by the time-table so as to give sufficient time to the men to get to and from their destinations, and if that were done, the motormen, being licensed by the Government and therefore competent men, would know when to run at a more excessive speed and there would be no danger from that point of view, provided there was a competent man on the handles. Now there is the Appeal Board, to consist of one representative to be elected by the employers and one representative to be elected by the employees, with another to be appointed by the two as Chairman We think in Christchurch that this clause is absolutely essential to the well-being of the Tramways Union, to the employees of a Tramway Board, as well as to the general public. Our may be stated by these facts It is known that under the agreement arrived at between the Chrirtchurch Union and the Tramways Board we have a section that allows for inquiries and appeal These inquiries are arranged for in this fashion The employee appears before the Staff Committee which consists of four or five men They hear the man and take any evidence he may br 5 forward, and decide on the case. If the man is not satisfied he can appeal to the Board as a whole, which consists of the Staff Committee and the rest of the Board. He can be represented by the secretary or other member of the union on that appea which is heard by the St »,. not »*«d tor by the m.n who a.ked for the appe.l, »nd the deoi.io, was g>™> o» . wrong