I.—9a.

104

[g. lomas.

113. Supposing that applied not to the present motormen, but to those who applied afterwards, 'would that be sufficient guarantee that the men would be properly trained ?—I think so. 114. That would be one guarantee?— Yes. 115. And it would be for the Board to say after the examination whether a man would be competent or not? —I believe it gives that power to the Board. 116. Do you know that there is an Appeal Board outside of the Government service?— No. 117 Do you know whether the school-teachers have an Appeal Board? —I cannot say. 118. In answer to a question you said the locomotive-engine drivers are examined by the Railway Department, and that no one could get in without a certificate :is that so?—I think so. 119. Do you know how many engine-drivers got in when the Manawatu Railwaj' was taken over? —I cannot say, but it is possible there may have been some. 120. So that Mr O'Shea's contention that no one could be taken on without a certificate is not right, because you know that when the Manawatu Railway was taken over by the Government the men were taken on without a certificate? —Yes. 121 You said that these clauses of the Bill were approved of by your ConfereTice?—No, not everything It coincides with their views. 122. When was your Conference held —last year?— No. We had a Conference three years previously 123. Was this Bill considered at the Conference of 1906?—N0. 124. Do you know whether the clauses in this Bill were in Mr McGowan's Bill?— Yes. 125. Therefore the driver's certificate, and the Government inspection of the tramways were in Mr. McGowan's Bill? —Yes. 126. And clause 5 was in Mr McGowan's Bill? —Yes. 127 Was the Appeal Board in the Bill of 1907?— I do not see any reference to the Appeal Board in that Bill. 128. Do you know whether it was in the Bill? —I cannot say from memory 129 Do you know whether the car report-book was in the Bill of last year?—l do not think it was. 130. Supposing they were all in the Bill of last year, then the only conclusion you can arrive at would be that they were not in the Bill before the Conference was held? —Yes. 131 Then it would be a misstatement that the Bill was framed by your Conference? —I do not say that at all. 132 Did you not have the Bill of last year and the Bill of 1907 at the Conference, and approved of certain clauses in those Bills after the Bill was placed before Parliament? —Yes. 133 Consequently the contention of the legal gentlemen here that the Bill was placed before the Conference is not a sound one?— Yes. 134. Do you think that the local authority in Christchurch look after the public safety and the employees as well as they should do?—I think they do 135 Is there any improvement that you can suggest?— Only in the matter of overcrowding. 136. What about the speed?—The speed we object to within certain limits. 137. With regard to the car referred to by Mr Carter running for a month when out of order, do you think if there had been a Government inspector he would have examined it to see if it was all right?—l think he would. 138. And the management took no notice whatever of the report?—lf he reported it, I think oiu . Manager would have done so. 139 Are you entitled to compensation when you meet with an accident? —Under the Workers' Compensation Act I think we are. 140. Is there any case where the Tramway Board has had to pay compensation?—l cannot say 141 Do you know of any?— Not to my own knowledge. 142. You say that motormen's certificates are already provided for in the Machinery Act?— That was my impression, under the interpretation of the word " machinery " 143 Did you ever get legal advice on the point? —No. It only occurred to me the other day, before I came here. 144. Do you know whether it would be necessary to have a clause in this Bill incorporating the Machinery Act and its powers in this respect?—lf it would cover all that is necessary 145. Have you known many cases of overcrowding in the cars in Christchurcii J —A good many cases. 146. Do the passengers stand on the motorman's platform?— Yes. 147 Many of them? —At times a good many 148. Can you give us any idea of any certain number you know of as a fact ?—I have seen half a dozen on the motorman's platform. 149 Do they also stand on the conductor's platform?— Yes. 150 Do you think that is conducive to the public's safety?—No, I do not. 151 Do you think it ought to be prevented by law?—lt ought to be. I have known where they have been told to get off, and the Inspector has told the conductor to allow them to stand on the platform. 152. Can you give me the Inspector's name?—Mr Dick. 153. How long ago is that?— Over twelve months ago. 154. Were you a motorman then?— Yes, and the motorman complained to the union about it. 155. Was Inspector Dick placed before the Appeal Board? —The man complained to the union and the union did not take any action on it. 156 Do you know the reason why the union did not act on the motorman's complaint?— They did not thinkit necessary when the officials departed from the by-law like that. 157 Did the motorman enter that in his report on the day's work—the case of overcrowding being reported to the Inspector? —No.