I.—9a.

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10. As ail engine-driver? —No, I was in the boilermaking business. 11. You are a boilermaker by trade? —An assistant boilermaker For six or eight months I was in the store in the Eunning Shed Department, and was pretty constantly in touch with the engine-drivers. 12. Have you seen the Inspection of Machinery Act, 1908?— Yes, and in my opinion it is already provided in clause 41 of that Act that the motormen should be licensed by the Government. The word " machinery " in the interpretation clause is said to mean any contrivance that is driven by steam, water, gas, or electricity. 13 And the Act states that any candidate for a certificate shall pass an examination?— Yes. 14. You consider that the Minister, in the Bill before us, is not asking for any more power than he already possesses under the Inspection of Machinery Act? —That is so. 15. So that it is not an innovation, in your opinion?— Not according to my reading of the Act. 16. The interpretation clause of the Machinery Act says, ' ' Machinery ' means and includes every shaft, whether upright, oblique, or horizontal, and every drum, wheel, strap, band, or pulley by which the motion of the first moving-power is communicated to any machinery, and every machine, gearing, contrivance, or appliance worked by steam or water power, or by electricity, gas, gaseous products, or compressed air, or in any other manner other than by hand, by which motive power may be obtained of such kinds as are from time to time declared to be subject to the provisions of this Act.' And subclause (3) of clause 41 reads, ' For the purposes of this section every such person shall pass an examination and obtain from the Board of Examiners appointed under this Act a certificate of competency as to his possessing the necessary knowledge and requirements as to the working of such engine or machinery " Subclause (2) reads, " Every such person who is in charge of an engine while being propelled or moved from place to place by its own motive power and machinery (exclusive only , of engines and boilers used or employed in the working of any railway the property of His Majesty) shall be the holder of a locomotiveand traction-engine driver's certificate." Is that the clause?— Yes. 17 Have you looked at the Second Schedule: "All machinery worked by steam or water power, or by electricity, gas, or gaseous products, or compressed air, or in any other manner (other than by hand or machinery driven by animal power) in which motive power may be obtained, and used in printing, knitting, flax-milling, flour-milling, sawmilling, sheep-shearing, bore-crushing, rock-crushing, quartz-crushing, pumping, preserving, weight-raising, chaff-cutting, cloth-mills, woollen-mills, batteries, foundries, breweries, or in any other manufacturing or industrial process." Do you consider that includes electric cars?—l have not looked at that. 18. It is clause 41 you go by? —Yes. 19 Do you consider you have as much responsibility as a motorman as the driver of a locomotive has on the railway?—l consider, more. 20. What line do you drive on?—The Christchurch—Sumner line. 21 How many trailers do you sometimes have on the Sumner line?- —Two. 22. On a holiday or on Sunday how many passengers do you have?—ln heavy loading I should consider I was well within the mark in saying 250. 23. Mr Young ] How many trailers do you have then?— Three. 24. Mr Eosser ] Do you approve of Government inspection of the trams at all times?— Yes. 25. Take your equipment, is there any uniformity in the sand-punchers or gong-punchers? —No. 26. Do you consider there should be uniformity in the sand-punchers?— Yes. 27 Take subclause (c) of clause 5 of this Bill, the maximum number of passengers to be carried on a car : Do you know if there are any by-laws with regard to overcrowding?—l am not certain. 28. If there are, have they ever been enforced ?—Not to my knowledge. 29. Do you consider they ought to be enforced? —Yes. 30. Have you had any instances of overcrowding on the cars you have driven ?—Yes, plenty of them. 31 Can you give the Committee an instance? —I can give several. I can give an instance when I was on the Linwood-Woolston line, but it is hardly fair to do so, because I am making a statement about a manager who has left the service. In this particular instance I had a Boon car, which has a cabin at each end, and is open in the centre. There were as many as I could get in when I left East Belt going into town—in fact, I had some passengers alongside me, where they should not have been. I knew I was breaking the rules. Ihere were two ladies waiting for me in Barbadoes Street, and I passed them. I said I could not get any more on. When I got back the manager was waiting for me, and wanted an explanation. I told him how I was situated, having passengers alongside of me and on the footboard, and he told me that I might have got them on anyhow, as they wanted to get to Woolston that night. 32. Have you had a car to seat thirty-six with ninety passengers on it? —Yes. 33. Have you seen passengers riding with one foot on the buffer and the other on the rear platform? —Yes, when I have not been on duty 34. Do you consider that is a proper position to be put in ? —No. 35. Does it affect the conductor? —Yes, he cannot see if he has a load on like that. 36. Does your demerit system apply to the missing of fares?— Yes. 37. Do you think an overcrowded car is likely to cause a conductor to miss fares? —Yes. 38. Does it interfere with his view of whether a passenger is on or off his car before he gives a signal? —Yes, it must interfere with his work if the passengers are all round him. 39. Have you seen cars going out in Christchurch with two trailers and only one conductor in charge?— Yes.