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R. W. HOLMES, j

138. Even if those gentlemen considered those brakes would be efficient for the system, as against your own opinion?—l would not say that—l should still hold to my opinion. 139. At the same time you would not go to the extent of saying that that would not be a fit system of brakes? I should still say that the air wheel-brake was not sufficient for the cars in Auckland. 140. Then, in the event of our waiting until the Freund brakes are tried and experimented with, and then ordering the magnetic brake, how long do you think it xvould be before they could get them to work ?—I should think the magnetic brake could be installed on the cars inside of txvelve months, providing the trucks did not require radical alterations. 111. Did you ever examine the carriages to see if they would require radical alteration?— No. 142. Mr. Walklate tells us they would practically have to be rebuilt? —In that case it would take longer. 143. Have you read the Bill?— 1 have just glanced through it. 144. Do xoii see any power in it that is likely to be used by you or by the Minister of Public Works in a manner that would be likely to hamper any private company or municipality in the running of trains? -As far as I ajn concerned I would not recommend anything to be done under the powers of the Act that would harass any company or system. The last words in subclause (/) of clause 3, " convenient working of the traffic " —if the word " con\ 7 enient " xvas taken out Ido not think there is anything in the rest of the Bill that could be taken exception to. 145. Well, supposing the whole of the subclause (/) were taken out, the Bill would be fairly harmless, xvould it not?—l do not think there xvould lie any harm in deleting the whole of it. 1 think any points on which it is desired action should be taken might be enumerated. 146." Do you think the Government should hax 7 e some control over tramways where there is such liability to accident?—l think it is rigid that the General Government should have some control over tramway systems in the same way as the Board of Trade in England controls them. 147. Do you think a periodical inspection should he made? —In some cases. With smaller installations particularly I think it is desirable, and 1 might say that two engineers connected with the cable tramways in Dunedin have often asked me why we do not examine their outfit and equipment. 148. Of course, you are aware that there is such a thing at the present time as the examination of boilers and ships, and inspection of mines? — Yea. 149. And no embarrassment is inflicted on any one?— No. 150. Are electric works just as liable to severe pressure as a boiler working up to 1501b. to the square inch?— Yes. 151. And there is just as much necessity for it being inspected? —Yes. 152. And you think the Government ought to have that power? —Y T es. 153. Mr. '<,'. M. Thomson] Do you think it is advisable to allow shed hands and clerks to run cars during times of pressure or during rushes?—lf they are properly trained there is no harm in it. 154. But they are not regular inotornien? —If they have been properly trained and worked a sufficient time as motormen there would be no harm. 155. Do you know of any case of the magnetic brake failing? —There have been alleged failures, but in the several instances I have inquired into I have not been able to prove it is the fault of the equipment directly. It has always been found to be in perfect order. 156. Mr. Luke] Does not the Board of Trade at Home only exercise powers in giving certificates for the strength and material and safety of the machine—they have nothing to do with making regulations?— They make regulations for the tramway systems. 157. And their regulations have to take precedence of tramway authorities? —Yes. 158. Is it not a fact that Lloyd's people at Home take the place of the Board of Trade in regard to certificates for ships and engines throughout?—Y'es. Of course, the Board of Trade does not inspect boilers as they do in New Zealand. 159. At Home the Board of Trade carries out certain functions that are exercisable in connection with certain things, but firms can avail themselves of Lloyd's people for supervising or for passing their work instead of the Board of Trade?— Yes. 160. Steamers are built and boilers are surveyed under Lloyd's?— Yes. 161. And engineers are examined by the Board of Trade at Home?— Yes. 162. The Hoard of Trade does not exercise any further power except to grant certificates?— That is all. 163. Do you think it would make for greater safety for the public if xve had this dual control? Seeing that the corporate body stands to the community as the Government does to the community, do you not think the dual control would tend towards a less efficient service to the public than we have at the present time? —I do not think there is any intention for there to be dual control. The Bill is more to insure that the local authority carries out its proper duties. 164. The Bill says that the local authority's rules and regulations shall be superseded by the regulations set up by the Department : and does not that take the control out of the hands of the municipality?—lt does seem like it, [Return shoxving number of accidents on Wellington Corporation Tramways for year 1909 put in. Vide Appendix B.]