P. HERBERT.]

57

H.—l6b.

Detectives. If Mr. Mitchell was fair he would have said a good deal more. In the first place, I submit he is no authority on the question, in spite of his high rank and experience. " Far more care is necessary in the promotion of a detective to Sub-Inspector's rank than in the promotion of station sergeant to Sub-Inspector." He does not say what entitles him to give an opinion at all; the mere fact that he is an Inspector does not make him any better judge. I ask you to look upon Mr. Mitchell's opinion as that of an ordinary police constable who has had considerable experience as a constable but practically none as an Inspector. Invercargill is one of the smallest districts, with the fewest men, in the whole Dominion. Mr. Mitchell is a great friend of mine, and we have spent many pleasant evenings together. I submit that if it had not been for me and Mr. McGrath, and for the fact that the latter is known to have been a success in his position, Mr. Mitchell would have said a good deal more; but he could not offend his old friends, so he thought it would not make much difference to us but it would kill all the others. I submit if I aspire to a Sub-Inspectorship, or if Mr. Mitchell is entitled to aspire to be Commissioner of Police,, which is commonly reported if a successor to Mr. Dinnie may be required, then my aspiration is very humble indeed, considering that he and I were constables together in Auckland. His service is not worth a rap more than mine. As to his ability, I say nothing at all. 5. The Commissioner] I do not know that he aspires to the Commissionership? —It is common talk. I think I had it from Mr. Dinnie himself. Then he said, " The class of duties is so essentially different that great care must be taken in promoting a detective to higher rank." They are only as different as the uniform the men wear; they are all under discipline; they are all prosecuting the same thief, the same by-law breaker, the same guesser; the duties are all the same, except that a detective has not to walk up and down a beat with gloves and a uniform on, and that does not justify his remark at all. His remarks are in favour of station sergeants as against Chief Detectives, and a strong argument in favour of my representations on the matter is that he knows nothing whatever about the merits of station sergeants at any rate, because he has never had a station sergeant under him. He was stationed for a great number of years in a country town— Paoroa—where there was a lot of work to do of a certain kind, but no police work; he was vegetating in the country all the time I was carrying on police Work. It is a wonder to me, with his little experience, he is as good a man as he is. Supposing I were made a Sub-Inspector to-morrow, and there was something for me to learn to do—which I do not admit there is—what can it be that I could not learn in five or ten minutes ? A constable comes in from the country, and is put on the street as sergeant; in many cases he has never seen an electric tram, but he manages to get along and keep out of the way of the trains. Surely an ex-detective could be competent to keep out of the way of motor-cars and accidents and official blunders and other traps as well as other men. Mr. O'Brien can tell you that when a man is arrested in a town the matter is handed over to the detectives at once. They perhaps arrest the man, make all inquiries, and get together all the evidence, piece it together, make out the brief, and go into Court; and now, since the last Commission, it is prosecuted by the Chief Detective, brought to a successful issue, and handed over to the Crown Prosecutor. We do all this serious work, and I am not afraid to say, if we do not do it any better than the uniform branch, we do it as well. 6. Sub-Inspector McGrath does not do it any worse because he is a Sub-Inspector than he did when Chief Detective?— No. He tells me his greatest difficulty now is with the people who go round street-corners at other than a walking pace. Now, I want to show how easily a man in our position may fall into serious trouble when doing what he considers his conscientious duty in the interests of the public when there is no need to do it, and he is taking a risk in obtaining admission of crime from a man accused. I do not consider I have any grievance in regard to the case I shall mention, because I am proud of the business, except that I leave it to the Commission to judge whether the Commissioner was right in saying to me what he did. A man was •arrested here on a charge of arson in 1904—a poor silly lad, in connection with whose arrest or conviction no credit could be hoped for. There was no evidence against him, only suspicion; but I saw from the circumstances that he was very dangerous, as there were five cases, and I took the risk of having him detained. Mr. O'Brien pointed out that there was no evidence, but I charged him with the crime, and during the night told the constable on duty that I would take all the responsibility if he could get an admission of his guilt. I went out of my way to do this in the public interest—l could get no credit for it from the public. The man was convicted, and sentenced to a long term, on my evidence. The Judge who tried the case told me I was quite wrong —that I had done something I had no right to do, or a Magistrate had no power to do —that it was very improper to get an admission in this yvay, and wound up by saying something to the effect that he had never censured a police officer for doing wrong in the belief that he was doing right. I believe the remark was equivalent to paying me all the compliment he could under the circumstances. In forwarding my report to the Commissioner I made out what I considered a splendid case in justification of my conduct, and I considered the Commissioner would have been quite entitled to go no further than the Judge in view of the peculiar circumstances. What he said, however, was, "The Chief Detective's conduct is most reprehensible, and quite unworthy of a man holding the position of Chief Detective." I could not sit down under that, so I wrote saying I had not made myself clear, and asked for the file to te returned. I complain that the file was never returned to me. The Commissioner: The doctrine of the end justifying the means is a dangerous one. Witness: Quite so, but there are exceptional cases. I should like to draw a comparison be- ' tween the Commissioner's treatment of those concerned in bringing this case to a successful issue and of those concerned in the Papakaio case. If they were entitled to be complimented and spoken of in flattering terms, then I was overlooked. In the police cases here I had all the responsible work on my shoulders ; I had scores and scores of exhibits to take charge of; statements to take from an endless number of people, and other matters to arrange. The Commissioner, on his

B—II, 16b,