a.—l6b.

3. F. ARNOLD.]

21

geant So-and-so was promoted over so many other people," because it is not for me to say as to whether that man was qualified or not; and if he has got his promotion, well, I say, in the language of the boy in the street, "Good luck to him." 1 do not want to say a word against him. So if you will permit me 1 will simply allude to these seven cases as numbers Ito 7, handing in to the Commission the names of the people 1 refer to. The Commissioner: That is the course I adopted in Invercargill. Where any constable, or sergeant, or detective was referred to by a witness 1 have asked that the name should be handed in (o the secretary, so that 1 may make further inquiry. It is possible that allegations may be made against some individual in the Force at the present time which ultimately will not be found to be supported by evidence, and it would be unfair to the individual that his name should go forth to the public in that connection. Witness: These are the cases referred to in my speech in Parliament. 1 regret I have not a duplicate copy. Mr. Dinnie: I should like to have a copy, so that I may clear the cases up. The Commissioner: It is for the Commission to clear them up. Mr. Dinnie: Am I to be allowed ,no time to look into them, in order to be in a position to reply to Mr. Arnold? It will not be fair to me. 1 may want to cross-examine upon (hem. The Commissioner: I cannot allow you to refer to anything 1 may do as being unfair. If vim will represent to me any matters you may wish considered I shall be glad to consider them. 1 am under no obligation to you at all as an individual, in connection with this Commission, all I am required to do is, where there may be specific allegation made against you or anybody else, to give you twenty-four hours' notice of the fact, so as to enable you to reply to that allegation. In connection with this, there is no allegation at the present time. If there is an allegation, when 1 find it to be based on sufficient material I shall at once afford you an opportunity of dealing with the matter. Mr. Dinnie: Twenty-four hours' notice is scarcely sufficient. The Commissioner: That is the time mentioned, but if in connection with any allegation you want a week, a week you can have. Witness: Of course, 1 do not know Mr. Dinnie in these matters at all. It might be any Inspector in New Zealand who is affected by this reference, because Mr. Dinnie may have made the promotions on (he recommendation of an Inspector in charge of a district. Perhaps before I quote these cases 1 hail better say 1 did not understand that Mr. Dinnie was here to cross-examine witnesses, and if that is so, of course, it appears to me there should be counsel on the other side, and 1 might have reconsidered my position in coming here at tlie request of a certain number of people. If there is counsel on the one side only, I think it is hardly a fair position. The Commissioner: This raises rather an important question. 1 may say the Department is on its trial. This is a Commission set up particularly to inquire into certain allegations made against the Police Force, and tlie Police Department must be held to be responsible for the present condition of things if they do exist. The Departmen! being on its trial, it may be said that the Minister at its head is also on his trial politically; and it seems to me the permanent head of the Department must necessarily have some reflection cast upon him in connection with the administration, and it would be only justice to allow the permanent head of the Department, without introducing any personal feeling into the matter at all, an opportunity from time to time of clearing up any matter which may be brought before the Commission by the various witnesses. Witness: It has been suggested, I repeat, that a number of people whose names I have supplied to you were received into the Police Force without due inquiry as to character, and as a result certain things have taken place which have caused unrest amongst the members of the Force itself, and which have caused certain members of the Force to feel they do not care how soon they get out of it, if they are going to lie associated with such people, and which have made it more difficult for the Department to get recruits from the right class of men. No. 1 was a man who was concerned in the assault case of which I spoke as taking place in the streets of Wellington recently. Xo. 2 is a man who left England in company with his wife's sister, who came to New Zealand and joined the Police Force. How much inquiry there was remains to be proved. His deserted wife made inquiries, and it was discovered (hat he was here in the Police Force, living with his wife's sister, by whom he had two children. He was found at the Lower Hutt. No. 3 came from England, joined, and went to Auckland. He was transferred for fighting, and then he cleared out with a married woman. As a matter of fact, he had been boarding with a certain person, and, although the police may not have known for certain, other people did know that things were not as they should have been. No. 4 was a man who was working on the tramways. He was dismissed from the tramway service in one of mil' New Zealand cities for making immoral suggestions to lady passengers, and he joined the Police Force. Xo. 5 was in the Glasgow Police Force. _He was dismissed from there for an assault on his sei geant. He came to New Zealand and joined here. What his papers showed lam not in a position to say,,as, of course, 1 cannot get at the tile. No. 6is represented lo me as being perhaps the most extreme case. He was an Australian, and Ido not think it is necessary for me to say from what part he came. He was a notorious thief. His photo and his finger-prints were in the Police Department in New Zealand. Mr. Dinnie: No. Witness: Well, if they were not, so much the better. In any case, lie came here, and he was wha( 1 have staled. That will not be denied. He joined the Police Force. Whether his fingerprints were in the office when he joined or not, they certainly were afterwards, and while he was still in the Foice Mr. Dinnie: His photograph only. Witness: Well, his photo; and while certain people—and amongst them, I understand, Detective Cassells—were at the window looking at the photograph they recognised this person on